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  • Quran 43:32: Hunter Gatherers And Classless Society

    Posted by Shaharyar Sabeeh on November 3, 2024 at 5:25 am

    https://www.javedahmedghamidi.org/#!/quran?chapter=43&paragraph=10&type=Ghamidi

    Above is the tafseer of Surah Zukhruf verse 32 by Ghamidi Saheb.

    It is suggested that division of material wealth and the existence of class society is necessary in order to continue the flow of the society.

    More importantly, it is also suggested that this division is done by Allah swt himself and this fits in the broader framework of this world being a place of test for mankind.

    Maulana Islahi’s tafseer is also pretty much the same.

    I want to ask where does the existence of hunter gatherer societies fit into all of this?

    Humanity was predominantly hunter-gatherer for the vast majority of its history, and by many accounts, this period was largely classless. Archaeological and anthropological research indicates that humans lived as hunter-gatherers for around 95% of our existence, from the emergence of early hominins over 2 million years ago until the Neolithic Revolution about 10,000 years ago. During this extensive period, small, mobile groups depended on hunting, fishing, and gathering plant foods, which created a highly cooperative, egalitarian way of life.

    Shaharyar Sabeeh replied 2 weeks ago 2 Members · 7 Replies
  • 7 Replies
  • Quran 43:32: Hunter Gatherers And Classless Society

    Shaharyar Sabeeh updated 2 weeks ago 2 Members · 7 Replies
  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar November 4, 2024 at 12:16 am

    The idea that hunter-gatherer societies were classless is difficult to confirm. Women often depended on men, especially during pregnancy and nursing. Those who were weaker or less skilled relied on others for support. Large hunts required group cooperation, and with collective efforts came natural distinctions among leaders and followers, as well as those who were more or less capable.

    • Shaharyar Sabeeh

      Member November 4, 2024 at 10:57 am

      This all might be true but this is all hierarchy not a class system. Hierarchy exists in most aspects of humanity’s social life. From family to business, it is everywhere.

      Even in the socialist states there existed hierarchy in industry and their party structures.

      But what Ghamidi Saheb’s tafseer implies is that classes can never be eliminated and their existence is among part of God’s divine plan for this world. He literally uses the word “tabqaat”.

      Hierarchy elimination is probably the goal of anarchists, not communists. The later are of the idea that it would exist even in higher stages of communism.

      And also, as you have also pointed out, hierarchies were naturally there in hunter gatherer societies. Class existence idea isn’t true for those early societies.

      So again, what does the verse really mean?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar November 6, 2024 at 12:13 am

    The verse is an argument that is based on an existing fact. The argument is that people cannot decide to whom God should send His revelation. God has created the diversity of human abilities and opportunities that naturally lead to diversity in different financial statuses. They cannot decide who should be given more wealth, therefore they cannot decide who should receive the blessing of the divine revelation.

    • Shaharyar Sabeeh

      Member November 7, 2024 at 2:37 pm

      Do you agree with the mention of class existence as crucial component for smooth working of society in their tafaseer?

    • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

      Scholar November 7, 2024 at 11:08 pm

      It is natural and unavoidable. The society exists this way.

    • Shaharyar Sabeeh

      Member November 8, 2024 at 8:42 am

      It has not always existed this way, in fact not for thousands of years. Hierarchy is necessary.

    • Shaharyar Sabeeh

      Member November 8, 2024 at 9:02 am

      As for the verse, I think it discusses two things:

      1. The source of income and living distributed by Allah swt Himself.

      2. One’s level above the other so that one can take utility of other’s abilities to get their ‘work’ done.

      The first point refers to the existing fact in the context of that particular society and to much extent, today’s era too. It seems to give the meaning that it is Allah swt who’s running the cycle of history such that you see class difference today. It doesn’t mean that it was absolutely true for entirety of human history.

      The second refers to the differences in physical and mental abilities rather than classes, so that one can get their work done by the other who might be better and more experienced. This has forever and will forever exist.

      I think this is how we can understand the vast majority of human history that was of hunter gatherers while not contradictory to Quran.

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