Forums › Forums › Sources of Islam › Quran 5:70 Rasul Killed?
-
Quran 5:70 Rasul Killed?
Posted by A Hasan on September 24, 2020 at 8:38 amIs Rasul here just used in the general sense? How do we know this?
A Hasan replied 4 years, 1 month ago 3 Members · 22 Replies -
22 Replies
-
Quran 5:70 Rasul Killed?
-
A Hasan
Contributor September 24, 2020 at 8:39 amAl-Baqarah – 2:213
Arabic
كَانَ ٱلنَّاسُ أُمَّةً وَٰحِدَةً فَبَعَثَ ٱللَّهُ ٱلنَّبِيِّۦنَ مُبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنذِرِينَ وَأَنزَلَ مَعَهُمُ ٱلۡكِتَٰبَ بِٱلۡحَقِّ لِيَحۡكُمَ بَيۡنَ ٱلنَّاسِ فِيمَا ٱخۡتَلَفُواْ فِيهِۚ وَمَا ٱخۡتَلَفَ فِيهِ إِلَّا ٱلَّذِينَ أُوتُوهُ مِنۢ بَعۡدِ مَا جَآءَتۡهُمُ ٱلۡبَيِّنَٰتُ بَغۡيًۢا بَيۡنَهُمْۖ فَهَدَى ٱللَّهُ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ لِمَا ٱخۡتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ مِنَ ٱلۡحَقِّ بِإِذۡنِهِۦۗ وَٱللَّهُ يَهۡدِى مَن يَشَآءُ إِلَىٰ صِرَٰطٍ مُّسۡتَقِيمٍ
Also here Allah says that nabis do the job of Rasul
-
Umer
Moderator September 26, 2020 at 10:23 amPlease see this response:
-
A Hasan
Contributor September 26, 2020 at 5:08 pmAl-Ma’idah – 5:70
Arabic
لَقَدۡ أَخَذۡنَا مِيثَٰقَ بَنِىٓ إِسۡرَٰٓءِيلَ وَأَرۡسَلۡنَآ إِلَيۡهِمۡ رُسُلًاۖ كُلَّمَا جَآءَهُمۡ رَسُولٌۢ بِمَا لَا تَهۡوَىٰٓ أَنفُسُهُمۡ فَرِيقًا كَذَّبُواْ وَفَرِيقًا يَقۡتُلُونَ
But here it clearly says that rusul were killed. Maybe the word rasool doesn’t have to be different from nabi and they are just used interchangeable. Just some rasool/nabi bring the court of God onto Earth and some don’t. But that doesn’t have to do with them being rasool or nabi- they are just synonyms
-
Umer
Moderator September 27, 2020 at 1:55 amThe word ‘rusul’/’rasool’, in the Aaayat you’ve cited, is used in its plain literal meaning of a messenger and not as a term. The word ‘الّرُسُل‘ (Al-Rusul) is a plural of ‘الّرَسُوْل‘ (Al-Rasul). As pointed out by Ghamidi, the word has two connotations: one as a common Arabic word and the other as a term having a specific meaning. As a common Arabic word, it means a ‘messenger’ (one who delivers a message). So the Rusul of the Almighty can be His angels and His Prophets since both bear His message.
Here are some usages of Rusul in the Quran as a common Arabic word signifying angels and prophets:
i. Signifying Angels:
إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ رَسُولٍ كَرِيمٍ (١٩:١٨)
This is the word of a gracious and mighty messenger. (81:19)
الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ فَاطِرِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ جَاعِلِ الْمَلَائِكَةِ رُسُلًا أُولِي أَجْنِحَةٍ مَّثْنَى وَثُلَاثَ وَرُبَاعَ (١:٣٥)
Praise be to God, Creator of the heavens and the earth! He sends forth the angels as His messengers, with two, three or four pairs of wings. (35:1)
اللَّهُ يَصْطَفِي مِنَ الْمَلَائِكَةِ رُسُلًا وَمِنَ النَّاسِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ سَمِيعٌ بَصِيرٌ (٧٥:٢٢)
God chooses messengers from the angels and from men. Indeed, God hears all and observes all. (22:75)
ii. Signifying Prophets:
آمَنَ الرَّسُولُ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِن رَّبِّهِ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ كُلٌّ آمَنَ بِاللّهِ وَمَلآئِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ (٢٨٥:٢)
The Messenger believes in what has been revealed to him by his Lord, and so do the faithful. They all believe in God and His angels, His scriptures, and His Prophets. (2:285)
Here the word Rusul is used to mean all prophets.
يَا مَعْشَرَ الْجِنِّ وَالإِنسِ أَلَمْ يَأْتِكُمْ رُسُلٌ مِّنكُمْ يَقُصُّونَ عَلَيْكُمْ آيَاتِي وَيُنذِرُونَكُمْ لِقَاء يَوْمِكُمْ (١٣٠:٦)
Then He will say: ‘Jinn and men! Did there not come to you Prophets of your own who proclaimed to you My revelations and warned you of this day?‘ (6:130)
Here also the word rusul is used on its literal meaning and signifies all prophets.
يَا بَنِي آدَمَ إِمَّا يَأْتِيَنَّكُمْ رُسُلٌ مِّنكُمْ يَقُصُّونَ عَلَيْكُمْ آيَاتِي فَمَنِ اتَّقَى وَأَصْلَحَ فَلاَ خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلاَ هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ (٣٥:٧)
Children of Adam, when Prophets of your own come to proclaim to you My revelations, those that take warning and mend their ways will have nothing to fear or to regret. (7:35)
Here also the same usage as above.
As a term of the Quran, the word Rasul signifies a cadre among the Prophets (Anbiya) of Allah. The difference between a Prophet (Nabi) and a Rasul is that the latter decides the fate of his nation in this world. The righteous are rewarded and wrong doers punished. The Quran says:
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يُحَادُّونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ أُوْلَئِكَ فِي الأَذَلِّينَ كَتَبَ اللَّهُ لَأَغْلِبَنَّ أَنَا وَرُسُلِي إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ (٥٨ :٢٠-١)
Indeed, those who show hostility to Allah and His Rasul are bound to be humiliated. The Almighty has ordained that I and my Rusul shall always triumph. (58:20-21)
It is common knowledge that as a term the only Rasool that was raised among the Bani Israel was Moses (As) and after him it was only Jesus (as). Between these two, all the people raised by God were Prophets and it was among these that some were rejected or killed by the Israelites.
Also, it is not Ustaz Ghamidi’s position that a Rasool cannot be killed. A Rasool can be killed but not before Itmaam al Hujjah, which then necessitates that Divine punishment befalls those who rejected the Rasool. In other words, after Itmaam al-Hujjah, a Rasool can be killed, but eventually the plan of God will prevail and the disbeliever will be destroyed.
(Mushafiq Sultan)
-
A Hasan
Contributor October 12, 2020 at 8:31 pmAlso, it is not Ustaz Ghamidi’s position that a Rasool cannot be killed. A Rasool can be killed but not before Itmaam al Hujjah, which then necessitates that Divine punishment befalls those who rejected the Rasool. In other words, after Itmaam al-Hujjah, a Rasool can be killed, but eventually the plan of God will prevail and the disbeliever will be destroyed.
Al-Mujadila – 58:21
Arabic
كَتَبَ ٱللَّهُ لَأَغۡلِبَنَّ أَنَا۠ وَرُسُلِىٓۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ قَوِىٌّ عَزِيزٌ
But here it says the prophets also prevail. Is that just in the figurative sense because of course isa عليه السلام for example didn’t gain dominance in his life
-
Umer
Moderator October 13, 2020 at 3:36 pmThe requirement for punishment is that of a presence of Rasul who conclusively delivers the message and on reaching phase of ‘Hijrat & Barat’, the next phase is that of Punishment for which physical presence of a Rasul is not a necessary condition (17:15 sheds some light into this). So theoretically a Rasul can be killed but the disbelievers and deniers of the Rasul must be destroyed and 58:21 can be interpreted in this sense.
However, there is no proof available of a Rasul (as a terminology, not in literal sense) being killed actually. The verses 3:183 and 5:70 which talk about murder of rasuls, are very very clear in their context that they relate to rasul in literal sense, because those verses are addressed to Bani-Israel and for Bani-Israel we know from other places in Quran were given a special status of Shahdah-Alan-Nas and were responsible for Risalat on others as a Nation and there were Prophets sent one after another to them to guide them in their status of Shahdat.
The need for a Rasul (as a terminology) only arose among them when there was need to do itmam-e-hujjat on Bani-Israel themselves as was the case with Risalat of Jesus (sws) and there was infliction of eternal punishment on them after death of Jesus (AS).
-
A Hasan
Contributor October 14, 2020 at 9:45 pmSo me and my prophets getting dominance is just a language terminology like the force or concept they represent will succeed
-
Umer
Moderator October 15, 2020 at 3:27 pmNo! Disbelievers and deniers of a Rasul must be and will be inflicted punishment, that’s what it means when you combine all the verses and see their meaning in a holistic sense. 58:21 is also an explanation of the same Sunatullah related to Rasul.
-
A Hasan
Contributor October 15, 2020 at 3:29 pmI mean yes the disbelievers will get the punishment. But to say that the rusul also get dominance is talking about the idea of the mission of Islam succeeding because the rusul can die after the decision has been made
-
Umer
Moderator October 15, 2020 at 3:31 pm
-
-
Umer
Moderator October 13, 2020 at 6:50 pmPlease also see this verse, I think this is very critical in putting things in their right perspective.
وَ اِنۡ مَّا نُرِیَنَّکَ بَعۡضَ الَّذِیۡ نَعِدُہُمۡ اَوۡ نَتَوَفَّیَنَّکَ فَاِنَّمَا عَلَیۡکَ الۡبَلٰغُ وَ عَلَیۡنَا الۡحِسَابُ
We shall show you some part of the warning We are sounding them or give you death and after that deal with them Ourselves. Nonetheless, your responsibility is only to communicate and taking account is Our responsibility. (13:40)
-
Dr. Irfan Shahzad
Scholar October 16, 2020 at 9:14 amRasul prevails either way: politically, by getting power over his opponents and his opponents are subdued or his deniers are annihilated by sword or by using power of natural forces. Every form has its requisites.
-
A Hasan
Contributor October 16, 2020 at 9:14 amBut sometimes the Rasul is not there to witness this dominance eg Isa عليه السلام
-
A Hasan
Contributor October 16, 2020 at 10:21 amSo when Allah says that he and his rusul will dominate it means that the mission they stood for will dominate. Like we even say nowadays we assign peoples as symbols for missions
-
-
Dr. Irfan Shahzad
Scholar October 16, 2020 at 10:39 amno Rasul witnessed the complete destruction, he had to leave before the calamity strikes. and Yes Rasul may die before he could see the culmination of his dominance over his deniers.
-
Dr. Irfan Shahzad
Scholar October 29, 2020 at 12:35 pmTo keep Rasul alive to witness the punishment is no way a rule described by God anywhere in Quran. Rather he told that whether Rasul stay alive or not the ordained punishment will befall the deniers. This is another case that most of the Rusul had been there when the calamity struck their nations.
-
A Hasan
Contributor October 29, 2020 at 12:36 pmThen how is it justified to use the word ‘dominate’ for the rasool also? Because if they’re not even alive or there to witness the destruction, then it is God who has dominated, not really his rasool.
-
-
Dr. Irfan Shahzad
Scholar October 30, 2020 at 12:33 amhumiliation or annihilation of opponents of a Rasul, as a result of his effort is his success, even if he is not there to celebrate it, as we say, when effort of, for example, a leader to lead his nation to freedom succeeds, though he is not alive to watch the result, that he won finally.
-
A Hasan
Contributor October 30, 2020 at 9:39 am
-
Sponsor Ask Ghamidi
The discussion "Quran 5:70 Rasul Killed?" is closed to new replies.