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Sufferings Of Animals Or Children
Allah is very kind and merciful. How could Allah let animals suffer?
There are sick and injured animals and animals being eaten alive in the wild. What is the Allah’s scheme behind this.
Why would Allah allow this?
1. Could it be that animals are being tested just like humans and bad animals are punished in this World or they may be punished in the life afterwards?
2. Could it be that they do not suffer and seem like they are suffering?
3. Perhaps animals are created as a part of our test environment and in reality they don’t exist or suffer?
The same question extends to suffering or dying young children.
I am surprised that this topic is not addressed in Quran or anywhere else in Islam (that I know of)
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58 Replies
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Sufferings Of Animals Or Children
updated 6 months ago
11 Members
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58
Replies
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Quran tells us only the knowledge which is required for our test of life.
Since we know that God is just, we can assume that He will compensate every being for all their sufferings.
In the greater plan of God, the reward is much greater as compared to sufferings. We only see a part of His grand plan and incomplete knowledge leads us to such doubts. It’s true that God is merciful but He has to run His plan.
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Hi
Mostly herbivores in the wild live a life under constant fear of being eaten by beasts. Anyone who has kept dogs or cats know that animals have emotions.
My question is why would a compassionate God create such a scheme of things where animals and human suffer.
If the answer is that God will compensate them , even then how can a compassionate God make his creations suffer and then compensate them. If a human being “has power” not to make his kids suffer would he/she still make them suffer and then compensate them.
Now saying that God knows better. Then this saying is not compatible that Islam is rationale and logical. What is the rationale and logic of animal and human sufferings?
Thanks
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Brother Sohail. Human suffering and children suffering perhaps I can understand and form some justification. We are here for a test and Allah knows the future, so perhaps suffering is either a test or punishment for our past or future acts, but animals are not being tested or may not go to heaven to my knowledge.
I am trying to find logic, without questioning Allah’s scheme or any impact on my faith. Any and everything is possible with Allah. It is just search of knowledge and better understanding of the creator.
At the end I agree with brother Irfan’s statement. Allah only revealed the knowledge necessary for us to pass our test. He did not send all the knowledge and answer to everything.
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I am surprised that he told us about jinns which we don’t interact and told nothing with clarity about animals with whom we interact on daily basis.
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He is not compassionate in the sense we take its meaning. He is compassionate the way He is and He tells us about it in the Quran.
He chose to create a test, allowed suffering, and decided to compensate for it.
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And I believe the compensation will be exponentially more than the sufferings… InshaAllah, for those who remain steadfast.
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Dear Sir
With due respect we can make believe anything, but if we are studying religion rationally then we can’t take this approach imho.
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Rationality and logic doesn’t imply that we can know everything. In fact it implies quite the opposite. This is no different in other fields of knowledge such as math and science. One key difference is that in those subjects we can express unknowable ideas as fancy symbols such as infinity and iota, while in metaphysics and religion such ideas must be expressed in words.
Just like in math and science we infer many things based on what we know with certainty, we infer certain things in religion as well. There exists no direct observational evidence for the Big Bang, however, we can infer it with the expansion of the universe using the Hubble’s law. If Big Bang is too far fetched, you might be surprised to know that even universal gravity is not a conclusively proven idea. In fact there exist anomalies and discrepancies that go completely against the popular concept which provides the very foundation for many scientific ideas.
“God knows better” is not just an attitude amongst the religious community – it also equally exists in the scientific community. Granted that in those communities it’s expressed in more secular terms, for example, the popular motto in Quantum Mechanics, “Shut up and calculate!”
In any field of knowledge, the key is to understand and appreciate the boundaries of our knowledge. Without a firm grip on this very concept, one can neither be a good scientist nor a good student of religion.
In conclusion, the purpose of religion is to warn us humans about a huge incident that’s about to occur – the day of judgement. It’s purpose is not to reveal God’s scheme about everything in this universe or in the afterlife. There are certain things that have been given to us along with their evidences, certain others that we can infer, yet others that we can discover, while a great many that we won’t know in this life.
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Well stated Faisal 🙂
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The point is that suffering of humans and animals is not compatible with our idea of a compassionate God. So if our claim is that our religion is logical and reasonable then we can’t pick and choose.
In this particular case, the fact is we have no reasonable answer regarding the creation of especially animals’ suffering by a compassionate God .
For us muslims, maybe we can accommodate your answer. But how do you explain this to a non muslim or an atheist or agnostic. Our whole claim of a compassionate God is challenged!
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Sohail, I like your comment that we need to remain consistent about whether it is a logical and reasonable religion or not. I gave it a little thought and the answer was clear.
The logic and reason is there when a command is issued for us to follow. A command that will help us being successful in this World and afterlife. But, Allah has not elaborated much beyond those commands. Regarding animals there is simply no info. Just like animals, Allah has not elaborated on everything, such as, why he made Jinns, why 7 universes, etc.
Regarding atheist, whatever force they belive created the universe also decided the fate of animals. So I do not see any point of discussion with them.
Regarding agnostics, they are illigocal to start with and they are lost. They should work on figuring ouy their primary issue before questioning anything else.
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There’s absolutely no challenge to the concept of the Most Compassionate God. The misconception only arises out of lack of knowledge, as it very well can to an ignorant person in any field of knowledge.
Instead of standing on the sidelines and criticizing, if an atheist or an agnostic is willing to spend his time and effort in understanding the scheme of God as He himself has presented it, then no such doubts remain.
In the world of philosophy this doubt is called the Problem of Evil and it has been discussed and debated in the academia for many centuries. Yet, how come there exist many intellectuals including modern day scientists who are still theists? Not only that but there are several examples of atheists turning theists once they spend the required effort to understand the big picture. A relatively recent notable example that comes to mind is Francis Collins, former head of the Human Genome Project. It’s surely not because they’re not aware of the so-called problem or they just want to slide it under the rug in their frenzy to believe; it’s because they know enough to be able to understand and appreciate the solution.
I leave you with the following post that will help in understanding the scheme of God and provide the proper perspective required to evaluate such problems in. I highly recommend that you watch the videos a few times.
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There most probably is an “Energy ” but looks like it’s not the Abrahamic God because of many discrepancies and gaps between observable facts and description of God as given in Abrahamic faiths.
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Not knowing does not mean not existent. we know not what God do with animals, the objections can only be arisen if God has told, he would not deal with them with justice and will not compensate them for their suffering.
let’s wait to see, what God will do with them
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Whatever Allah has created in the universe is merely a means to an end. All of us being His creations are working towards achieving that end in His workshop (the universe) as workers and resources. Since Allah is our Master and the Creator He has all the rights to use His creations in whatever manner He deems fit and that’s why whatever comes in the way to achieve His end goal is destroyed. However, He compensates those who suffer hardship and other loses far more than what one deserves – that’s what makes Him Rahman and Raheem. He did tell us in the Quran that there is an End Goal but did not tell us what it is, probably because its so obvious only if we ponder in the universe, the history, the trend based future projections, and the roles all that exists is playing. We can see everything including humans and animals are playing a role in the creation process – we are all creating and innovating stuff, some simply as fillers like the mass and the others have more complex roles like as reactors, replicators, makers and even designers who needed a free will (and a guidance to use it right) to effectively play their role.
That’s my theory which helps me under the problem of evil and my role on Earth better.
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I found the following article quite useful on how to process suffering in this world from an Islamic perspective: https://yaqeeninstitute.org/mohammad-elshinawy/why-do-people-suffer-gods-existence-the-problem-of-evil
Excerpt from the article’s conclusion:
“A Muslim, on the other hand, reflects on the universe to find that all of it points to God’s Greatness and Wisdom while being cognizant that a finite creature like the human being can never fully comprehend the Greatness of God nor His Wisdom. Extending that to the “problem of evil,” a Muslim’s general confidence and trust in God’s Wisdom is sufficient, even if he or she does not know the details of how this wisdom plays out in this life or the Hereafter. Just as a Muslim does not deny God’s attributes due to not completely grasping their details, a Muslim consistently treats God’s Wisdom in the same way. A Muslim does not deny God’s Wisdom precisely because they have the humility to accept that they cannot fully comprehend God’s decrees.”
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I have found by the Grace of Allah the answer to This question in Surah Al Anaam ; verse 38!!
“All living being raming the Earth and winged birds soaring in the sky are communities like yourselves. We have left Nothing out of the Record. Then to their Lord they will be gathered all together.
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It didn’t answer why a all merciful God is allowing animals to suffer in the wild at the hands of each other. Also, A tiger killing and tearing apart a deer who for a few seconds goes through extreme agony can’t be held accountable as he (the tiger) is only acting on his God given instincts .
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God has allowed human suffering so has he allowed animal suffering. This is how He designed the world and announced that He would compensate them in the hereafter. He is not softhearted as we may imagine but has a grand scheme to run. Eternal blessings are awaiting for a short suffering. He told us for us, the same is hopefully there for the animals too.
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Human suffering can be explained as humans are here for a test.
Animals also have feelings, personalities and we know that there are evil and compassionate individual animals which means they have free will which means if God is just he/she will reward/punish animals too which means animals also have some level of consciousness. So according to our observation , humans can live very well on a plant based diet . So it animal eating maybe justified where humans are starving but how can it be morally justified elsewhere to eat beings with feelings. It is like allowing eating babies, somewhat.
In short, there is no clarity in Islamic understanding of animals.
Thanks
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Brother u r constantly looking at it from a very narrow angle.
Ponder these points plz
1. If suffering points to the fact that there’s either no god or He is not merciful then we know suffering is much less and short lived than joy or time of no suffering. So does it mean there’s a god? Why the abundance on non-suffering is proof of a merciful god? If all is random then suffering and joy should be equal in a living beings life but it’s not!
2. Suffering or death is only here to keep balance. If there were no tigers then deers, cows etc will overpopulate and disrupt life. If there r no lizards then insects will be dominant species in this world and we wouldn’t exist because we carry the weakest immune system
3. Why merciful god means that He can never do harm? Don’t parents go against there children wishes? Don’t parents impose pain? (vaccinations, surgeries) do u consider such parents non-merciful??
Evil/suffering is a way to keep balance in the world of animals etc, it also allows humans to exercise free will and serves as a testament on the day of judgement. We can understand natural evil in the similar manner
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Salaam brother.
No parent gives injection by choice, whereas God has created suffering by His choice so that’s the difference.
So when a lion rips apart a deer, the suffering of deer is created by God’s scheme which points to randomness, or a not so merciful God because no humanbeing will create such a world given a choice which this “energy ” did.
No answer is better than a bad answer .
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I would like to say my opinion on this interesting thought of yours;
Perhaps the concept of Mercy can not be understood without showing us this cruelty and barbaricness in the wild.
The duality of things. You can’t understand happiness if you don’t know sadness. So maybe it’s there for us to observe and understand and ponder. But still its very cruel and evil for that animal undergoing that process. I’m curious about the answers of others here too.
2 sides of coins.
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Must be it is a very cruel entity to create cruelty to show mercy. Could have designed a more merciful system.
Slaughtering animals when humans can live perfectly well on plant bases diet is unfathomable
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W salam
May be I didn’t made it clear
By parent example, I wanted to explain that suffering is given voluntarily to avoid bigger problem later. It’s quite simple. We never doubt parents love for the child, do we?
Parents do chose vaccinations, surgeries , amputations etc by “choice” there’s no compulsion. ???
First u have to present a sound argument that why a merciful God necessarily means a world without suffering?
Then explain how in such a world free will could work?
Otherwise we will be going in circles
Yes no human being would create a world u r describing because humans lack knowledge of past and future.
Arrogant mind can never understand truth but it’s own delusion
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What do these animals get after going through so much suffering. If God is just , he must compensate them with paradise, which ghamidi sb said once. So if there is paradise for them it means they have free will and consciousness , so how can a human being kill another being for eating though the human specie can for sure survive on a plant based diet. It’s all messy.
And please will appreciate if you don’t use emotionally loaded words like delusion, etc .
Thanks
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Free will is the scheme of test and reward for being with consciousness. But this is not the only criterion to get the blessings of God. We hope God will compensate the animals for participating in the scheme of God. The same goes for the human beings who do not have a sane mind.
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Sir ,
with due respect this is all conjecture on our part.
Why is it that God described jinns which generally humans have no interaction in detail whereas animals , with whom especially domesticated animals, are only mentioned in the context to be used for riding and meat. There is no mention whatsoever in Quran that animals will be compensated. There a few hadiths, though.
It looks that God doesn’t consider them having feelings and personalities which is contrary to our observations. How can we explain this contradiction ?
The important thing is that there is no coherence and clarity in Islamic understanding of animals and as a result there are many questions that pop up which also contradict other cardinal points of Islam.
Thanks
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Delusion isn’t an emotional word, reaction to it is emotional
U keep changing the argument brother. Now u r talking about what animals get out of it??? How can we know for sure? Whatever anyone says is nothing but conjecture
Paradise for animals? Really! How does that justify killing them?
It’s a simple way to understand. Allah has put death in this universe for everyone and everything. If stars didn’t die then earth couldn’t be formed. Animals don’t eat plants then vegetation and poisonous plant species will flourish, if animals don’t eat animals then sick old animals will not be eradicated and the young ones won’t survive
Humans consuming animals and plants should be understood in this broad scenario rather than the narrow corridor of only 1 meaning of mercy should explain everything, it can’t and it’ll only lead to confusion
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Thanks bro for your reply.
Why hasn’t God given us clarity about it if our intellect is not able to solve this confusion.?
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Qur’an is not the book to answer every question. It deals with what God wants from us. Qur’an does not tell extra details. The mention of the jinns became necessary because polytheists had developed false beliefs about them. God made it clear that they too are subject to accountability.
If extra details had been entertained, the list is unending.
We can figure out by knowing the ways of God that His mercy and generosity is beyond our imagination. He would hopefully compensate animals and insects and other creation for their suffering.
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The argument made is that mostly those things are mentioned in Quran where it is not possible for humans to reach with intellect alone like the day of judgement. Since we are not able to understand the “unnecessary ” sufferings of animals with our intellect so God should have explained the logic of unnecessary suffering of animals and their situation in the afterlife.
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There is no ‘should’ for a God.
Be grateful for what the Master taught His slaves for it was His favor, if He did not favor more, then it is what it is.
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The words Master and slaves have very negative connotations atleast for me.
Well He can do whatever He wants but then He shouldn’t say that He guides people and He takes care of them.
Maybe we need to make a distinction between God or Gods of religions and the (“Real Universal Energy) and most probably you are right the “Real Universal Energy ” really doesn’t care. It has established natural laws, given us all the resources , given us superb brains. It really looks like that humans are just very advance animals. We have just developed make beliefs, it really seems .
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This is reality of your relationship with the Most Gracious, whatever you like to call the Most Gracious. the Most Gracious owns you completely and you own nothing, lower than slaves is the creation! Reality seems to be going to have a negative connotations for you at this point no matter how you like to look at it. Time to accept it or flee from it, your choice. If the Most Gracious can do whatever He wants, then the Most Gracious can say whatever He wants too. The slaves do not dictate the ‘shoulds’ for The Most Gracious but He does dictate the ‘shoulds’ for the slaves.
What is this Real Universal Energy you speak of? Do you speak about that what you do not know? When the Most Gracious Himself has told you about Himself? A slave should not speak ahead, if the Most Gracious has already spoken, you will listen and not think whatever you feel like because you are not God. The Most Gracious gave you everything, the Most Gracious can take away everything and the Most Gracious can do much worse. So listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osfnbWpfdEY -
One can make believe any thing, but an observation of the universe and the presence of such barbarism in the wild natural world points that the real energy after all is not that compassionate and merciful as we think and the real entity or entities or whatever it is, is something else than what religions have introduced about their God .
Ofcourse, we are going to talk in human language and understanding of mercy , grace. Because if that is not acceptable then the access to this entity is through some non verbal , para sensory channels which mystics, monks, sadhus, talk about or maybe that too is just imagination and not objective reality.
The most important question is that when religious people stand on such high moral pedestals yet kill animals to eat then they owe an explanation to humankind for giving unnecessary and avoidable sufferings to animals .
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One can’t make believe anything without an authority. Or they will be consequences.
Then we are fortunate that Islam does not preach an All-Loving God.
Let me tell you what God is in Qur’an:
He creates and He destroys.
He loves and He hates.
He cares and He humiliates.
He finds and He abandons.
He forgives and He punishes.
He frees and He binds.
He guides and He misguides.
He is the Most Gracious and the Vengeful.
He is a King that tolerates no rebel.
He is the Master who owns.
He is the Authority who judges.
He is All-Powerful and can do whatever He wants. He rules by right of power and right of wisdom.
He does not care for those who reject Him.
He has no needs.
He is not dependent upon anyone but all of creation is dependent upon Him.
He is all the rights and He defines everyone’s right, intellect, morality, everything.If He wants, He could throw everyone in Hell and no one can stop Him. But that fact that He tolerates, is what makes Him very Merciful. Because He has no reason or need to be Merciful yet chooses to be so. This is the Most Gracious. He is not Gracious because He supposed to be live up to someone’s expectation of a loving mother.
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Thanks a lot for your reply. Looks more like a narcisstic dictator attributes .
The authority or authorities may themselves be make believe.
Our observation of the universe , etc give us some pointers to the type of “entity , energy, etc ” and those pointers do not point to a religious God because there are questions upon questions from observation of animals that literally tear apart our whole religious understanding of reality ( God , compensation, etc ) .
If the religious god were real then the entire religious collective wisdom over centuries failed to explain animals and their sufferings “consistent ” with their religious narrative of reality .
Looks in real, humans are just part of animal kingdom at a higher level. Animals are our family and we need to respect them, create laws so that there life and dignity is protected and to abolish unnecessary eating of animal meat as humans in general can live fairly well on plant based diet. What I am saying is reasonable, rational but now those who say religion can be understood rationally will be very hesitant to agree.
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It is not narcissism because it is the truth and He only created us for us, He gets nothing out of it and He does not need praise, just that you don’t start believing falsehood and think yourself as a God when you are not. And It is not dictatorship when He has the right. Be rational with your statements.
Does your universe explain why you are not just another animal that just eats and die? Why you do think? Why do you feel good and bad about actions (morality)? Why do you die? What happens after you die? The tradition of prophets coming and telling you that there is more to life than just being an animal? That where you came from? If you don’t care about that then you are right, you don’t need religion. Religion is for the thinking man, not an animal.
The Most Gracious did not promise to answer your question about animals. So He did not fail. Simple as that. But man has failed many times, especially when the slaves tries to make up demands on their independent Master that answers no one except out of favor and mercy.
So, plants have feelings too. You should respect that (Or are you going to inflict pain on one creation and not the other because you feel like it?). In fact you are just a talking collection of atom, why respect every atom while you are at it, and not do anything that harms anything. Just sit still completely if you are truly consistent with what you are saying. If you are not consistent then we are going to take the reasonable option that religion provides.
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There are several religions, and their sects and subsects and all of them say with equal zeal as yours as having acess to the ultimate reality and have done horrible things to each other.
On the other hand, science tells us that animals have senses and they feel pain.
Unfortunately, your lack of clarity shows your utter frustration in your choice of words.
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Technically we believe based on evidence that makes us believe that God has given us authority. Your problem seems to be that you are not convinced by this authority and now see all narratives as equal.
I would suggest you to simply examine the evidence we have and see if we are right. Because once you accept the authority, then it is easy to accept the Most Gracious’ testimony (even if it is not up to one’s liking) and resolve your issue, accepting that some knowledge is gifted to us by the Most Gracious and some is not, we should be grateful and accept the reality. But I feel the real problem is that even if we do convince you of the Qur’an, you won’t submit to a Being you describe as a “cruel narcissistic dictator”, am I right? That’s the real problem isn’t it?
Animals have senses and feel pain yes. Oh and science also tells us that plants have senses and feel pain too.
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Dear friend
Have you seriously done a comparative study of world views because observation is 99 percent people follow what their conditioning has taught them that includes religious people , liberals , athiests as well .
Rarely people critically and honestly evaluate the world view in which they are born .
My argument is simple : Humans can live perfectly well on a plant based diet why do they have to eat animals unless it is a medical necessity.
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I have done comparative study yes. But this isn’t about me and them. It is about you. You are the one with the problem, you came to us for help, right?
So I ask you. Do you want to know why we believe what we believe or not? And I think you are dodging the question I have put forth (“But I feel the real problem is that even if we do convince you of the Qur’an, you won’t submit to a Being you describe as a “cruel narcissistic dictator”, am I right? That’s the real problem isn’t it?”)
Your argument is lacking because at one point, you have to eat an animal. And how will you eat it? Killing an animal is always a sin unless you have authority by the One who gave it life (Would you murder someone if there was a medical need? Would you eat children if there was a medical need? You compared animals to children in this very discussion thread.). To get that authority, you need evidence, so I repeat my question above again. Do not turn away from it please.
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To get authority, one need evidence . What sort of evidence do you have that points to an Abrahamic God.
Yes there is ample evidence of a “universal energy or entity ” but not of an Abrahamic version of God who is vengeful, puts his best creation in hell fire with vivid torture.
There is no evidence of natural laws breaking as in miracles, or of magic or of jinns or supplications or creation , or attacking jinns with meteors . Can you proof any of these. These appear more like bed time stories. Be intellectually honest. Since you are the one claiming to it to be real, it’s your responsibility to proof the things I just described.
On the other hand, there is ample evidence of a universal entity or energy that does not interfere in the natural laws of the world, hasn’t our sense of compassion or mercy, has provided all the resources in this world and given us superb brains to solve our problems.
Everything is cause and effect. It has provided a built in sense of morality and a mind that can reason .
I think people need to have sense of humility and not to defend something they didn’t chose.
Humans have this wonderful capacity to make belief and then try to create feelings.
Also, humans tend to justify every thing. We see whatever we want to see and filter the rest.
If our quest is to know the truth then our approach is different but most want to just stick to their conditioning and their make belief reality because otherwise it is painful to step from comfort zone.
Even hindu pandits justify sattee ( the burning of widows)on the basis of “authority”.
Kindest Regards
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Hold on. I haven’t even provided the evidence yet. But I am asking the question you have to answer first:
“But I feel the real problem is that even if we do convince you of the Qur’an, you won’t submit to a Being you describe as a “cruel narcissistic dictator”, am I right? That’s the real problem isn’t it?”
Answer it.
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Is abrahamic God a cruel narcisstic dictator ot not ?
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No, the question is that if Qur’an is proven, would you accept whatever it says? Including how it describes God? Would you accept a God that is proven but is not up to your liking?
Because this is important for the discussion to continue.
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Ofcourse
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Good. So here is how it going to be.
Here is our arguments for our belief:
Discussion 1630You may study them. If you are not convinced. You are free to do whatever you want and believe. If you are convinced, then you know what to do, accept the answer we gave you about the animals. It’s important because you gotta address the foundation problem, ask question from there in a new thread if needs be.
Good luck on your journey.
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Allah is compasionate to his creation, e.g. that is why he gives plenty of rewards in the day of judgment by our requesting merely few actions, Allah SWT has explained that this world is a test and he has created death and live for a test. But when we ask why he is doing so, this question is out of our worldly matteres the question it self is not rational…bcz now we are trying to understand our creator’s well, we want to know what type of creation is our creator (لیس کمثله شی ) …this is not matter of this world (and Allah has given us a few knowledge of his attributes that is important for our test and worldly matters . when we see him we may ask and See What is His Own Plan …but here for us as a humenbeing and his creation it is more enough that God has created us in this world for a simple test with countless and unimaginable reward that absolutely fits that he Is The Mercyfull and Most Compasionate.
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My take is that sufferings is a very personal experience and only the living organism knows whether the animal or child is suffering. We can’t judge properly. Plus we need to worry about passing our test in this life and leave other matters to Allah.
We can just guesd. Perhaps suffering child or animal would be rewarded by Allah much more than sufferings itself that ultimately the child or animal will be happier that he suffered.
The second reason could be that sufferings may be punishment for misdeeds that the animal or child will commit in the future. Or perhaps the sufferings may be a help from Allah to direct that person or animal to a path of righteousness and if sufferings was not there, that animal or child would have taken the path of sin otherwise.
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Animals sining!
there are questions after questions regarding animal sufferings and religions are not able to provide satisfactory rational and reasonable answers.
Infact, with this single issue of animal suffering the whole religious narrative of soul, accountability, etc etc falls apart, yet God has not provided clarity nor the collective human religious intellect over centuries has provided any cogent, reasonable, rational explanation “consistent “with the religious narrative.
I hope here anyone can explain these issues reasonably within the framework of religion. Ghamidi sb has unfortunately not been able to. Atleast he is honest that he says in such issues he will ask God .
Our interaction with animals will be 360 degrees different if we realize that they are beings with sensations, personalities rather as things to be eaten and to be used by humans as a God given right . Because most people justify their treatment of animals because of religion.
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You are still fleeing the core problem in your argument. What right do you have as a slave to this clarity?
Provide a clear rational authority. No feelings, no emotion. Just your right to this knowledge. Provide it.
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Human collective knowledge tells us that when we can live perfectly well on plant based diet then there is no need to kill beings that have sensations to feel emotions.
If a tribe or a group of people don’t have access to plants and are starving then maybe they can justify eating animals. And there are arguments that even in such cases it shouldn’t be moral do so.
My source of guidance is intellect , and my built in compass of morality which finds killing animals immoral.
If some ones morality comes from religion, then he has to justify rationally as to why there is no clarity in God’s ultimate message regarding this. If one says there is no contradiction between reason and religion then it’s there responsibility to explain and clarify.
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This is not a contradiction. Just lack of information at best, a lack of information is not a contradiction. And if religion claim to answer every question, only then you have any merit to your argument. But it does not claim that and you have no merit for your argument until then. Truth is, when you are dealing with an All-Knowing Being, you will always have a lack of information, you will always face a ‘contradiction’ you keep imagining so try a more pragmatic approach instead of labeling every incident where your Master kept you out of the loop as a ‘contradiction,’ It is not a contradiction, it is a lack of right, a lack of favor. If you are grateful for the favors you were given, the Most Gracious might give you more. But if not, then so be it.
Also, I hate to break it to you but plants have feelings too. In fact, according to Qur’an, even things like the Earth has a personality (Qur’an 41:11).
Did you create your intellect? Or did come from somewhere else? That’s right, the Most Gracious gave you the authority you are using. And now He has clarified the limits of it in His revelations. And it is He who defines morality and He has defined it for us. You either accept the ultimate authority that is the Most Gracious or you settle for less and suffer for it like you are right now.
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It clearly says we have given exanple of everything in Quran But somehow didn’t give clarity regarding animal sufferings.
The whole religious narrative falls apart with this single point of animal sufferings. There are unanswered questions from collective religious wisdom and intellect over centuries!
But people have right to think whatever they want but to justify avoidable gross animal suffering in the name of religion has to be confronted.
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Quran does not give example of everything. It gives example of everything needed to survive the afterlife. The Most Gracious has spared you the burden of worrying for all of His creation, He will handle that. You need to handle yourself.
The religious narrative does not fall apart because The Most Gracious did not give you a piece of information that He does not owe you and never said He did. You have no right to this information. If you do, provide it! Until then, be grateful for what little information He did give you.
Sure, maybe we should be more careful of animals and reduce animal suffering. But that does not mean you need to try and tear down the entire religion narrative. That does not justify what you are saying at all. Especially since you have no right do so at all.
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