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  • Surah Fil Amin Ahsan Islahi

    Posted by A Hasan on May 9, 2021 at 9:48 pm

    The birds can drop stones held in their beaks and claws, but this cannot be termed rami. This verb can only be used when “the drop” has the power of an arm, a string or a wind behind it. (Amin Ahsan Islahi, Tadabbur-i Qur’an, vol. 9. 564)I don’t get why the term ‘pelt’ can’t be used in a literary sense for birds. It seems like the word is being looked into too literally.

    Al-Mursalat – 77:32

    Arabic

    إِنَّهَا تَرۡمِى بِشَرَرٍ كَٱلۡقَصۡرِ

    This ayah uses pelting for hell. Now hell does not have the power of an arm or a string or wind. It is a fire. Fire simply bursts out flames.

    So if it is said ‘the birds pelted them with stones of hardened clay’, it makes perfect sense. The use of the verb ‘pelted’ would suggest that the stones being thrown were endlessly being thrown into the elephants. Such a literal interpretation of an arm being required doesn’t seem necessary.

    Also surah fil starts off with ‘did you not see how your LORD dealt with the companions of the elephant’. If it were the quraysh who were the ones who did the stoning then did the Lord do anything? He just sent (according to islahi sahab) birds upon them to eat the dead bodies.

    Does anyone think my Defense if the traditional interpretation holds weight?

    Umer replied 3 years, 2 months ago 4 Members · 3 Replies
  • 3 Replies
  • Surah Fil Amin Ahsan Islahi

    Umer updated 3 years, 2 months ago 4 Members · 3 Replies
  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar May 9, 2021 at 10:51 pm

    The fire does have power to throw its flames at a distance. as we see in the case of lava.

    M Asad translated it the above cited verse as:

    “which – behold!- will throw up sparks like [burning] logs.”

    Birds can drop, but can’t throw or pelt. The same word we use for airplanes for their dropping bombs. They drop bombs and fire missiles and bullets.

  • Mohammad Kamil Syed

    Member October 3, 2021 at 1:06 pm

    There are lots of problems in explanation of this surah by the Farahi school.

    1) Mukhatib: Farhi scholars assume that this surah is addressing Quraish in Alamtara.

    You See wherever in Quran if Allah directly address anyone other than Rasool-ullah, it adds a line with its name for example , yaa aiyohan-naas…., ya aiyo-hal-lazina amanu ….., ya bani israeela …. like that. But in this surah, it starts from, A’lam-tara kaifa.., so it is addressing only Rasool-ullah not any body else.

    If surah address Rasool-ullah then “Termi” can not be used for throwing stone by Rasool-ullah at that time, he was not born at that time.

    2) If Termi can be used for wind because it pushes the stones with great force to give horizontal velocity then why can it not be used for birds they also flew with it to give it horizontal velocity.

    • Umer

      Moderator October 3, 2021 at 2:10 pm

      – Regarding your point (2), please read the following excerpt from Al-Bayan:

      اصل میں ’تَرْمِیْھِمْ‘ ہے۔ یہ اِس سے پچھلی آیت میں ’عَلَیْھِمْ‘ کی ضمیر مجرور سے حال واقع ہوا ہے۔ عام طور پر سمجھا جاتا ہے کہ پتھر پرندوں نے پھینکے، مگر حقیقت یہ ہے کہ پرندوں کے پتھر پھینکنے کے لیے یہ لفظ کسی طرح موزوں نہیں ہے۔ ہوا کے تند و تیز تھپیڑوں کے ساتھ ابرہہ کے لشکر پر آسمان سے جو سنگ باری ہوئی، اُس کے لیے، البتہ یہ لفظ نہایت صحیح استعمال ہوا ہے۔ استاذ امام لکھتے ہیں:

      ’’…چڑیاں اپنی چونچوں اور چنگلوں سے سنگ ریزے گرا تو سکتی ہیں، لیکن اُس کو ’رَمْی‘ نہیں کہہ سکتے۔ ’رَمْی‘ صرف اُسی صورت میں ہو گی، جب پھینکنے میں بازو یا فلاخن کا زور استعمال ہو یا ہوا کے تند و تیز تھپیڑے اُس کے ساتھ ہوں۔‘‘

      (تدبرقرآن۹/۵۶۴)

      – Regarding your point (1), it is a matter of linguistics, once you understand this, the application doesn’t seem too complicated.

      Please refer to the following response by Ghamidi Sahab from 48:22 to 49:11

      https://youtu.be/ILOXpSXJiK8?t=2902

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