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  • Why Does "What Normally Appears" In Verse 24:31 Mean Face, Hands And Feet?

    Posted by Rohan Hasan on July 30, 2021 at 10:47 am

    Verse 24:31 says:

    “And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments except what normally appears”

    Ghamidi Sahib said that what normally appears mean face, hands & feet, so any embellishment in these parts of the body can be showed in front of non mahrams. But why does this mean face, hands & feet? Shouldn’t it be dependent on the culture & tradition (like not covering the neck, hair, limbs is normal in many culture), instead of being specifically face, hands and feet?

    Umer replied 3 years, 3 months ago 3 Members · 15 Replies
  • 15 Replies
  • Why Does "What Normally Appears" In Verse 24:31 Mean Face, Hands And Feet?

    Umer updated 3 years, 3 months ago 3 Members · 15 Replies
  • اشهل صادق

    Member July 30, 2021 at 10:54 am

    Peace!

    Someone please correct me if I am wrong. This is Dr. Farhad Shafti’s opinion, right? That الا ما ظهر منها is dependent on the area’s custom.

    • Rohan Hasan

      Member July 30, 2021 at 1:13 pm

      Maybe. But did Ghamidi Sahib ever explain why he believes that “Illa Ma Zahra Minha” means face, hands and feet?

    • اشهل صادق

      Member July 30, 2021 at 1:17 pm

      Peace!

      I don’t know. It’s probably because the first audience understood it that way. As in, this is what was naturally apparent and, I believe, it should remain that way. No?

    • Rohan Hasan

      Member July 30, 2021 at 1:26 pm

      But didn’t the first audience also understood that women (free women) can never show their hair, neck, forearms etc to non mahram men, even if they are not embellished or beautified?

    • اشهل صادق

      Member July 30, 2021 at 1:28 pm

      First of all, I wanted to change my response to this:

      Peace!

      I don’t know. It’s probably because the Quran was (primarily, at least) an address to the Arab people of the 6th and 7th century and this is what was regarded as naturally apparent then. So…that is what the Quran meant by الا ما ظهر منها.

    • اشهل صادق

      Member July 30, 2021 at 1:29 pm

      Secondly, no they did not (at least to my knowledge). Where did you get this from?

    • Rohan Hasan

      Member July 30, 2021 at 1:56 pm

      Imam Tabari quoted many early authorities who said that it means face & hands+any kind of adornments worn there. while hidden adornment means the rest of the body+any kinds of adornments worn there. I found this in the article of Dr Usama Hasan called “Islam and the Veil”

      Imam Tabari quotes a large number of authorities to support his view that this ayah means that a woman should cover up in public, except for her face and hands. She is thus permitted to display her face and hands as well as any jewellery or cosmetic make-up thatis visible in these parts of the body, such as rings, eye-shadow or eye-liner and henna.Thus, the face and hands, along with the make-up and jewellery worn there, constitute the zinah zahirah (apparent adornment) that is ordinarily visible in public. The authorities from whom this view is quoted include: Ibn „Abbas„Ata‟ b. Abi Rabah, Sa‟id b. Jubayr,Qatadah, „Amir b. Shurahil, Ibn Zayd, Dahhak and al-Awza‟i. Some later jurists insistedthat if a woman wears make-up or jewellery in her face and hands, these must be covered.

      Tabari asserts that the “hidden adornment” is therefore the rest of the body
      , including any cosmetics applied or jewelleryworn there, such as necklaces, earrings and anklets


      It says that they believed nothing except the face and hands can be exposed, even if they are not embellished. So isn’t Ghamidi sahib already contradicting with the position of the early generation?

    • اشهل صادق

      Member July 30, 2021 at 2:27 pm

      I will have to read up on what Imam Tabari has written (the actual text). But if they believed زينة meant anything other than ornaments, that would just be against Arabic and the context of the verse. As far as I know, reports about Ibn Abbas and Ayesha رضي الله عنهما confirm the view of Ghamidi Sahab. I don’t know the soundness of these reports but they can be found in لسان العرب. They specifically mention ornaments which can be revealed and not what body parts may be revealed. Ibn Abbas’s report also mentions the face but that means the embellishments of the face, as is evident from the context. Zamakhshari has also explained that the word means ornaments and even detailed which ornaments can be exposed.

      To my knowledge, the مؤمنات did uncover the shins when they tended to wounded soldiers during some of the wars. They wouldn’t have done that if they considered it Haram.

    • Rohan Hasan

      Member July 30, 2021 at 2:37 pm

      Can you please mention reports/narrations here? I would like to read them.

      Also, you have mentioned some Arabic/Urdu words ( لسان العرب, مؤمنات). But sadly, I Don’t understand Arabic & Urdu (I can only read Arabic with the markings, but don’t understand it), so if you can write them in English, then it would be easier for me to understand

    • اشهل صادق

      Member July 30, 2021 at 2:43 pm

      لسان العرب (Lisan ul Arab) is a very famous Arabic dictionary from the 8th century, I believe. مؤمنات (Mu’minat) means believing women. The reports are in Arabic (like the dictionary). Would you like them anyway? I can translate them if you like.

    • Rohan Hasan

      Member July 30, 2021 at 2:54 pm

      Yes, I would like to see those reports. If you can translate them, it would be very kind of you.

    • اشهل صادق

      Member July 31, 2021 at 2:59 am

      Peace!

      First of all, I am sorry, I must have been mistaken. I couldn’t find the reports in Lisan ul Arab, but I did find them from Imam Al- Tabari’s tafsir.

      Ayesha said (regarding الا ما ظهر منها), “these are bracelets and rings.”

      Ibn Abbas said: “The apparent adornments (zeenah) are (those of) the face, eyeliners and Henna on the hands and rings. Because these are the ones exposed to anyone who meets her in her house.”

      Now, the Arabic does not say that Ibn Abbas said adornments of the face. I feel this is what he meant by “the face.” Because the rest are adornments and not body parts.

    • اشهل صادق

      Member July 31, 2021 at 3:13 am

      Peace!

      I wanted to add that if they (the Arabs) did believe that nothing except the face, hands and feet may be exposed to a non-mehram, that may be their own culture, because the Quran does not say this.

      Zeenah means adornments and it is wrong to take it to mean the body, not only from a language point of view but also from the verse’s own point of view. Look, the verse says zeenah can be exposed to some relatives. Can the whole body be exposed to anyone except the husband? Why didn’t Allah mention the zeenah of the men, if it included the body? Because it doesn’t.

    • Rohan Hasan

      Member July 30, 2021 at 2:06 pm

      In other words, he seems to have just partially agreed with them, not completely

  • Umer

    Moderator July 31, 2021 at 12:14 pm

    Ghamidi Sahab has explained his argument at length, please refer from 10:02 onward:

    Discussion 47826 • Reply 47839

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