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Status Of The Report On The Barking Of The Dogs Of حوأب At Ayesha
السلام عليكم
What is the status of the Hadith in which the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم told Ayesha that the dogs of حوأب will bark at her and she will be on the wrong that day. I couldn’t find this report but according to Engineer Sahab, it is narrated in Musnad Ahmad, volume 6, number 24299 and 24698
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20 Replies
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Status Of The Report On The Barking Of The Dogs Of حوأب At Ayesha
updated 2 years, 9 months ago
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وعليكم السلام
It’s Authentic according to Shaykh Albani, Hafiz Zubair Ali Zae, Ibn Hajar, Ad Dahabi, Shaykh Suaib Al Arnoot, Ibn Hibban.
Two more website confirming this ;- https://yaqeeninstitute.org/amp/read/paper/the-prophecies-of-prophet-muhammad#ftnt_ref24
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السلام عليكم
Thank you so much, Ali Bhai!
However I prefer not to trust these scholars when it comes to reports which are against the messengers of Allah and their اهل بيت (their wives, عليهن السلام). Remember how embarrassing reports about Suleiman and Musa عليهما السلام have made their way to Bukhari. Like Sheikh Atabek Shukurov says, unfortunately, the Muhaddithoon just look at the chains and say this report is authentic, when they also had to look at the texts of the reports, which are the actual problem and not the isnad (so, if someone alleges that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said to pray five times a day, he may be liar, but it doesn’t matter because the Sunnah is also this. I’m not saying that chains should not be checked but that the texts are the actual thing.)
Also, when it comes to reports in which they contend that “commandments” are not present, they go easy on their chains, like is reported from Ibn Abi Sheba (I’m not 100% sure that it was him, though, but most probably), one of the teachers of Imam Bukhari and someone held to be one of the primary authorities in the field.
I trust Engineer Sahab that if he quotes a report, it will be authentic according to these scholars or, at the very least, some of them. So, how these scholars view these reports are not the problem.
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وعليكم السلام
How is it against Prophet ﷺ or his wife? Rather it’s one of the proof of Prophethood that his prophecy came true.
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Well, first of all, the Mother of the Believers goes against the Prophet’s explicit saying (his explicit saying which he told her explicitly) Then, in a way, this report, by portraying that dogs barked at Ayesha, denigrates the Mother of the Believers (dogs barking at her, can you imagine that? In a whole army, specifically at her). Then, this report elevates the rank of Ali against Ayesha, which seems like the work of اہل تشیع, who consider her not to be good at all and think that the اہل بیت are Fatima, Ali, Hassan and Hussain, which is not true from the point of view of the Quran. The Quran always uses this term for a messenger and his wife or wives (for example, Ibrahim and Sarah).
So you see, I get a bad vibe from this report. Furthermore, Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim have not accepted it as it is not mentioned in their Sahihs.
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1) She is also human she can also err. Her mistakes were also addressed in Quran 66:3-5. Even she admitted in one report where she said Do not bury me with them (Prophet ﷺ, Umar r.a. , Abu Bakr r.a.) coz I did something new after him. And Prophet ﷺ didn’t said don’t do that rather he said ‘Then what would you (the wives of the prophet) do when you hear the barking of Al-Hawab dogs?’” means it was only prophecy not prohibition. It was destined to happen as Prophet said to Maula Ali a.s. There will be an issue between you and ‘Aisha.” He said, “Me, O Messenger of Allah?!” He said, “Yes.” He said, “Me?!” He said, “Yes.” He said, “Then [in that case] I would be the worst of them (all people).” He said, “No, but when this occurs, return her to her safe quarters.”
Even she wanted to return but Al Zubair r.a. said “maybe Allah will reconcile the people through you”
2) It’s not mentioned in Bukhari or Muslim is not an argument because they left many authentic ahadith he himself said;
“I have not included in my book al-Jami` but what is authentic, and I left out among the authentic what I could not get hold of”.
Anyway many Students of Ghamidi sahab do not even accept those ahadith that’s present in Bukhari or Muslim
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Thank you so much for replying, Ali Bhai!
1) We agree on the fact that she can make a mistake. No one is معصوم عن الخطأ.
2) What new thing did she do?
3) I don’t really take such prophecies ascribed to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم to be true. Just ponder over this prophecy and you will see that it raises important questions:
i) Why didn’t the Prophet address this issue if he knew about it? Are we claiming that he knew about it but let such bloodshed happen? Don’t say he did not know about it because these reports point somewhere else.
ii) The first Hadith says احداكن, one of the wives, but in the second one, the Prophet clearly tells Ali about Ayesha. Why didn’t Ali resolve the matter right there and then? Why didn’t they discuss it?
iii) What was the point of this prophecy, anyway? No one among the companions of the Prophet needed such a prophecy to be rest assured that Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم is indeed the messenger of Allah. So, what’s the point if it was just to be left aside even though the event would prove so significant?
4) You say she wanted to turn back. But she didn’t in the end. The barking of dogs is an abort sign when the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم mentions it. Just think about it. Why would the Prophet mention this event if not to point to a mistake which is going to be made by someone.
5) You say the argument from Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim’s Sahihain is not an argument. Fine.
6) A report’s being present in Bukhari or Muslim is not an argument that it is true. They find something against the Quran, Sunnah or reason and say that this report is محل نظر. What else are they supposed to do?
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1) Hmm😊
2) Shaykh Albani commented on this and said by New Things she meant her participation in Battle of Jamal which she regretted later.
3.1) Hadith didn’t claimed that he had complete “ilm al gayb” same can be asked about Death of Ammar ibn Yassir r.a. and also about Karbala where Angel told Prophet ﷺ that Hassan a.s. would be killed and showed him dust of that land.
3.2) It’s possible before he didn’t knew who’s that wife but later Allah swt would have told him. Again prophet saw didn’t have complete Ilm e Gaib. He might not know what was the matter why there will be dispute between them.
3.3) Prophecies are prophecies. I don’t have any answer to it. Prophet usually tell about thing that gonna happen in future such as Signs of Qiyama, Ammar’s fate, etc etc.
4) I don’t really think it was prohibition or abort sign just a simple prophecy she wasn’t even going for War at that as Zubair r.a. said maybe allah will reconcile the people through you.
6) Interpretion in the light of Quran
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السلام عليكم
😀
1) How is it new? How does that even make sense? The word most probably used is بدعة, which means invention in religion which she did not do.
2) Yes, the same can be said about these prophesies, which also make zero sense and, therefore, should either be rejected or at least not used. How can somone expect the Prophet to know that his grandson would be martyred and that he still did not tell Muslims to take care of him? Why did Gabriel even tell him that? So that he could grieve? Why would Allah tell him how Ammar was going to die? Doesn’t make any sense. These events had nothing to do with our beloved Prophet’s mission nor anything else. They had zero effect on anything. So, God purposeless told the Prophet these things? Ok, maybe Allah told these things to the Prophet as a “Friend.” But the Prophet told people. Why? No one took any action.These reports do not fit سنة الله, in my current opinion.
3) According to the second report you brought, the Prophet told Ali that he would have a dispute with Ayesha. Why did he not tell the same thing to Ayesha and advise them to always stay united no matter what?
4) Prophecies are prophecies doesn’t cut it. With all due respect, Ali Bhai, it seems like these prophecies are purposeless. The signs of Qiyama are probably not strong reports either but at least they are not purposeless. The Prophet gave us signs to see the Hour draw nearer so that we can correct ourselves before it is too late. The report about Ammar is once again very weak. There was no “rebel” group and noone was “calling to Hell.” Furthermore, Ammar did not call anyone to obey Allah. By the way, how is surrendering to Ali obedience of God? Once again, smells fishy (شيعة influence). And to my limited knowledge, Ammar did not even call towards obedience to Ali.
5) Yes, she wasn’t going to war. Agreed. 😀 I don’t know about you, brother, but کتے بھونکنا in our cultures is very very negative. One just cannot take that in any other way, in my opinion.
6) Agreed. However, some just can’t be interpreted like that, or it is very very hard because the narrators have jumbled up the words or mixed their understanding. There are just so many things which can and did went wrong in these reports and high calibre scholars are aware of them.
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@UmerQureshi @faisalharoon @AhmadShoaib @codename.AJK @Irfan76
Why are minor and major prophecies important ? Can you please answer ? Is thier any prophecy mentioned in Quran that has been fulfilled or yet to be fulfill ?
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Prophecies are told to provide evidences of the truth of prophet hood and Quran. Also to some extent they serve the purpose to warn people.
The prophet in many of his sayings foretold the bloodshed after him, which are documented in the chapter Ahadih Al Fitan in the books of Ahadith. However none of the Ahadith decides categorically for Muslims what is right or wrong as it was there test to decide.
In the above Hadith the prophet only told about a happening. He did not condemned it nor prohibited the mothers of faithful. The addition that “you will on the wrong that day against Ali ” seems a later addition, as we don’t find this addition in the authentic narrations. However Ayesha did take it a warning but she too was not sure about it being a warning or she could never go against it.
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وعليكم السلام
I Disagree !
Almost all scholars except few are in the opinion that this hadith is Sahih. and their are various ahadith regarding this incident through various chains confirming the same. btw Sheikh Albani declared this ahadith as ”Extreamly Authentic”
Engineer Sahab recently talked about prophecies and these ahadith have look https://youtu.be/morDz4549TE from 5:00
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السلام عليكم
Have you watched the video of Dr. Hafiz Zubair I sent, brother mine? If you did, please let me know the point(s) you disagree with him on. If you haven’t, please do watch it. We can’t just take names and say that because these people thought it was so, it must be so. We require evidence and Dr. Hafiz Zubair presented evidence. Also, reports have a lot of political and ideological biases. So, an individual or a group will fabricate or contort a report or reports to show that their view is correct. The Muhaddithoon know this and are themselves victims of this too. You can watch this video for a very brief overview of these biases:
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وعليكم السلام
He said hadith is ‘mursal’ so we must know who’s the one who narrated this to syedna qais bin abi hazim, and we find in another narration of Musnad Ahmad that he heard this from Syeda Ayesha r.a. hence its not mursal anymore
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السلام علیکم
That’s interesting. Thank you for that. I will ان شاء اللہ look into it. Also, what about the جرح on Qais ibn Abi Hazim? That he is منکر الحدیث, by Ali ibn al-Madini.
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وعليكم السلام
He is trustworthy according majority of scholars in field of ‘ilm al rijal’
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السلام علیکم
I don’t think it works that way in the science of Hadith or at the very least it shouldn’t. If even one of the masters of علم الرجال criticizes a narrator, we shouldn’t take from him especially when the narration has a political or ideological connotation. So, if Ali ibn al-Madini criticized Qais ibn Abi Hazim, I at least will hold him as suspect and will not take from him. It isn’t necessary that the defects of a narrator become manifest on every master of علم الرجال. That it manifests on one master is enough to make him a suspect.
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Ali Shafi Sahab (@alishafi1 ) , your comments were in violation of AG’s Code of Conduct and therefore have been deleted. Irrespective of our ideological differences, we do not allow disparaging remarks about any scholar. Continued violation may result in permanent suspension of your AG account.
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sorry mjha ghusa agya tha k is topic pa bhas krna ki waja kia ha.but mera ek masumana question ha k main 2 different writer ki Musnand Ahmed check kr scta ho.. @ashal sadiq na jo reference dia us reference pa koi or Hadees ha….Mehrbani kr k mjha guid kijia.
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Ali Shafi Sahab (@alishafi1 )
Please go to the following link:
https://ahlesunnatpak.com/research-paper/download-pdf/musnad_ahmed
And download volume 11 of “MUSNAD AHMAD IBN HANBAL” and go to page 68-69 (Narration no. 24758) and page 175 (Narration no. 25161). In Arabic manuscript, the numbering is different (Narration no. 24135 and 24535). I am attaching the screenshots.
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