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Ghamidi Sahab's Research On Touching A Na-mehram.
Aslamoalikum. I Have asked a question earlier here that whether it is permissible to touch/handshake with a na -mehram or not? And i have received answers which do not satisfied me. Sir Ghamidi said that it is permissible as long as there is no lustful intention in the eyes. But my question is this that Shaking and touching a na-mehrma is the beginning of journey that might leads towards Zina. So how it could be permissible.
I agree that if a women is older or too young(small kid) than there is no wrong in doing so, but when she is young or of same age or unmarried than it is obvious and sensible to avoid touching as it could might lead to the beginning of bad thoughts ( even if a person is very good and have no bad intentions) but the Nafs is something that always urges towards wrong doing. So What if a man( After listening to Ghamidi Sahab) with a good religious background who prays on time and have Taqwa Starts shaking hands with women when necessary and with good and pure intention but there comes a time gradually when that pure man somehow falls victim to Shayatan and which leads him towards bad thoughts,sins etc ??
And What about this hadees? Would you say this hadees is also wrong?
Mu’qal Ibn Yasar, may Allah be pleased with him, narrated that the Prophet [peace and blessings be upon him] said: “It is better that you be struck on your head with an iron needle than to touch a woman you are not allowed to” [Reported by al-Ruyani in his Musnad and by al-Tabarani in al-Mu’jam al-Kabir)
I would be grateful if you answers logically that would satisfy.
Ja’zak’allah!
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43 Replies
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Ghamidi Sahab's Research On Touching A Na-mehram.
updated 4 years, 2 months ago
6 Members
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43
Replies
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A pure man can fall victim to Shaytan without shaking hands and it happens all the time. Falling victim to the Shaytan has nothing to do with a harmless handshake without any ill intentions. Also when a person starts getting bad thoughts, he or she should refrain from any such touch.
Ghamidi Sahab has discussed ahadith like that, these are all about touching a woman with bad intentions not about harmless social physical contact.
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While I agree with Ghamidi saab’s opinion on intention being the important thing, and not the actual hanshake, but why is the exact quote of the Prophet is being interpreted differently ? What is the basis of his quote meaning something more than what it says ?
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FARHAN SAYIED sir i agreed to some of your points but you have ignored the hadees which i have mentioned. This hadees is authentic and has been verified by many scholars. This Hadees directly says that it is far better that a nail would struck at back of your head with hammer than touching a non mehrem in any sort. Why would this hadees being mis interperated or ignored just to defend ghamidi sahabs point of view. I have seen the video someone sent me before here on this forum but there too ghamidi sahab himself does not even bother to quote the hadees. So Why Is This?
It would be more grateful if someone nearer to ghamidi sahab or any other who elaborates this with more authenticity which makes some sort of logical sense to understand.
Waiting. Ja’zak’allah!
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Brother I have not ignored the hadith. I have explained what that hadith means. All hadiths are application of deen explained in Quran and Sunnah. Quran prohibits Zina and its applications only, If the Prophet is prohibiting an action, it has to fall under some prohibition of deen. The only relative prohibition here is that the touch must be with the intentions of Zina.
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The quote doesn’t say that. Why did Prophet not make the quote clear ?
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I am sure it was obvious. Hadiths almost never have context of sayings. These are usually excerpts of a detailed conversations without pretext and context.
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Do we have detailed conversations available so that we can get exact meaning of Prophet’s statement ? If he was already talking in the context of Zina, then it is not necessary that he mention Zina in each of his quotes.. so we need to look at his entire conversation .. just this hadith alone gives the quote meaning very generic.
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Yes when you collect all versions (Turks) often it becomes obvious what the context was, for eg hadiths about dogs, moonsoghting etc.
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Do we have the full conversation available on this particular hadith ? Are there more hadiths on this available to get the context of the quote ?
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I am sure we will find more when our hadith project research project gets to these ahadith.
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OK.. so currently there is nothing available right now, it will be available after the research. Ok, we will wait for that.
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If “touching” is not used literally, and is a figure of speech used for having sex with her, then I agree Prophet did not say that just touching is prohibited in itself..
I also agree that we use figure of speech even in quotes so it is fine, but it seems many scholars don’t think touching was meant for zina.. but in general touching itself was prohibited by Prophet.
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Another scholar’s view .. I find it very impractical.
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Shaking hands is a very normal social custom in the Western World. There is nothing to it. I fail to understand why a totally innocent custom can be linked to Zina? We have to understand the context of the hadees, what was the occasion, why the Prophet sws said it. Then the hadees has to be in line with the Quran and Sunnah. Does every innocent look every handshake has evil intentions?
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I don’t think handshake in itself is immoral, neither did Ghamidi saab say it. It seems certain scholars assumed and interpreted the hadith literally. If there is some context behind the hadith, please provide that context and explanation.
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None!
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Sameer please realize that every Hadith is not authentic, it has been conveyed from one person to another and could get totally distorted on the way. Also different scholars may have different interpretations. Shaitan can tempt to you when you are sitting alone. I think it is time we move forward with the world and progress, rather than decipher what a simple handshake is doing to you!
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I never said every hadith is authentic. I am only talking about the hadiths which many scholars consider authentic.
I fully agree that handshake is not immoral. However, the scholars who attribute this hadith to Prophet, certainly think that Prophet considered it immoral.
I fully agree with you that with time we should move forward from these unproductive matters.
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Dear Rafia Khawaja, I am really sorry to say this but it is a shame that you preferring to move with the world and placing this issue aside considering that its rubbish to talk about.
Mehram And Na-Mehram is a clear concept given by Allah and Prophet. Daughter of Prophet didn’t even look the 14th moon as she doesn’t wanted her sights to be crossed with any na-mehram.
There are many more of this kinds of events. If i agree that hadees might be misinterpreted but what about 100s of other events which reminds us the importance of the purity of women? Islam which has forbid women to be perfumed while going outside so that men would not attract then HOW SUCH RELIGION WHICH IS VERY SENSITIVE FOR THE RESPECT AND PURITY OF WOMAN COULD PERMIT AN OUTSIDE MAN TO TOUCH ??
Touching whether in great respect is somehow a ladder towards the journey of Zina. I know that many so called liberals laugh at these teachings but a true believer damn care about those, the thing that matters is what his GOD had commanded to him.
I have come to this forum Of Ghamidi saab a few days ago in hope to have a good debate for finding answers of those which people forgot or afraid to talk about, but the fact is the MODERATORS themselves are ignoring the facts. I had attached my point of view with references so they could understand my question and also i have attached the Statement of respected ghamidi saab that he also had ignored the Referances while make his statement. He didn’t mention the Hadees. You are saying an authentic Hadees to be misinterpreted? I agree that there are some which are still debatable but just to move with this World we could not ignore the teachings so easily.
I am still waiting for someone who is close to ghamidi saab who would deliver him the message to reconsider this and further elaborate it with more logic.
I sincerely apologize for using harsh tone, its just a human nature.
Waiting, Ja’zak’allah!
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Very passionate reply, brother Usama 🙂
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Dear Usama Ahmad
My sincere advice to you is ask a scholar who convinces you with an answer to your question. I totally disagree with you that an handshake can lead to Zina. It is your Niyat. If already Shaiytan has tempted you then I suggest you stay far away from a non mehram woman! Hadith has to be in line with the Qur’an and Sunnah. I’m not an expert so I suggest you either accept what Ghamidi Sahib is saying or write your question to Dr Shehzad Saleem a student of Ghamidi Sahib who is doing a project on collection of authentic hadiths. He will give you a correct answer. We all have to decide for ourselves with our intellect. This discussion is pointless. I’m not trying to convince you. We both can only ask the experts when we are in doubt. Thank you
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Dear Rafia,
Okay I’m leaving This discussion as Moderators are not replying themselves. And i respect your point of view, and i am again apologizing as my tone was harsh but it comes out to be the effect of human nature as i have asked this question with a detailed reference but moderators ignored. I study in the university and the environment of the universities today is not describable, There is just ostentation and nothing else. Every one is far away from religion. But it feels great when in world of cruelity there exist some passionate people like you and Sameer Bhagawat brother who actually struggles to find truth and not criticize the one who asks quesitons.
I Also thanks you for referring me Dr Shehzad Saleem, i don’t know how to contact him but i’ll somehow try. If you could share his email it would be great.
Ja’zak’allah And Stay Blessed.
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“But it feels great when in world of cruelity there exist some passionate people like you and Sameer Bhagawat brother who actually struggles to find truth and not criticize the one who asks quesitons.”
Thank you Usama brother for appreciating me. I appreciate your desire to find the truth, and please don’t hesitate to ask questions. Have an open mind.
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Furthermore my father was a diplomat and I have lived abroad a lot. A part of our duty was when some important reception was held at the Ambassador’s house, we all had to shake hands with every in coming guest, young or old. Do you think when a man shook hands with me Zina could come to his mind ??Usama it is not being modern or conservative. It is being realistic!!
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You must have been in a situation where you may have had to shake hands with many na-mehram in such a case.
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Yes and I can assure you Zina did not come into anybody’s mind!!
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Hmm.. so may be Prophet meant to address his immediate sahabas on it, and this hadith may not be applicable in current time where the world operates differently and women have to shake hands with men in today’s time and culture.
I think this statement in hadith is outdated now and we should really move on with the world.. I agree with you.
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Yes many hadith could have been time specific. It was a tribal society, yes Prophet sws could be addressing a particular incident. If Usama cannot be convinced by the Al Mawrid scholars then what I or you say is ineffective.
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Yes, Prophet always meant to convey the correct and moral thing, but Muslims always misunderstood and misinterpreted him. I feel there were deliberate attempts by some Muslims to attribute things to him he never said.
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Yes hadiths have been misinterpreted according to the understanding of the scholars, they have been taken out of context. So it is very important we see the different Hadiths on the same topic and understand them accordingly.
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Yes, I am sure Prophet may never have given such an impractical ruling, because touching a person can’t be avoided in today’s time at all . The scholars have taken it out of context.. may be he meant “touching” in a figure of speech manner, which means having illegal sexual encounter, many times we say “touching a woman” and mean that only. Prophet might have prohibited “touching” the na-mehram woman in that manner, not literal touching.
This hadith is definitely misunderstood and scholars have got Prophet’s hidden meaning wrong ,
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You are absolutely right. The Prophet sws must have meant touching the na mehram woman in an objectionable manner which could lead to immoral repercussions. You can see how a simple instruction can be distorted. We all know Zina is forbidden so anything leading to it should be avoided. Isn’t this common sense?
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Yes, any rational person will find such rulings absurd, as current time, it is not possible to live life without touching the other people.
I hope the scholars review their understanding and stop misinterpreting the words of Prophet .
Shaking hands is a sign of respect and welcome.
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Absolutely!
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Usama I’m more than happy to give you Dr Shehzad’ Saleem’s email. Dr Shehzad has been associated with Ghamidi Sb for over 30 years. He does all Ghamidi Sb’s Urdu books translation to English. He has been working on this hadith project for years and as Ghamidi Sb once said he is praying that this important project is completed in his life time
His email is
If anybody can give you a convincing answer to your question it is Dr Shehzad Saleem. Get in touch with him and best of luck.
I don’t mind any harsh tone. We have to learn from each other that is what our Deen wants from all of us. Please
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True people does exists. I’ve seen. Ja’zak’Allah
Allah Bless you.
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Usama I was in touch with Dr Shehzad Saleem and have told him about your un answered question. He is waiting to hear from you so please do write to him.
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Usama did you get in touch with Dr Shezad Saleem?
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Yes I have Mailed Him.
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Excellent. Please let me know when his reply comes and it answers your question
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@Usama25 I have replied to every comment and question directed towards me. I am not going to read all your conversations happening with other people. If you expect some reply from me, reply to my comment please. My last reply was unanswered by you and I assume you got your answers from me. If there is still something remaining, please ask. Thx.
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Shaking hands with a non-Mahram
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Please see this response:
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