-
God Being Just Because His Creation Loves Justice
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvDnnnkYLWQdvp6fCWJy-jzWgAAX_HKW6In the second part of the lecture, Ghamidi sahab mentions how- because humans love justice- and God created humans- God must also be just. Is the analogy correct that this is because you would not create something you do not like? Or is there some other reason for this link?
-
16 Replies
-
God Being Just Because His Creation Loves Justice
updated 3 years, 12 months ago
2 Members
·
16
Replies
-
So He created us in a way that we recognise that justice is the basis of everything that exists. Then be witness unto His Lordship based on this very foundation along with everything that builds up on top of it.
All of this only to realise in the end that this is what/how He Himself wasn’t?
-
Doesn’t have to be in the end. The start could’ve been from injustice.
Ghamidi sahab says that it is obvious that God is just because we like justice. I just wanted some extrapolation to this
-
-
So is my analogy correct?
-
Sorry I posted the whole playlist- it’s episode 13 from 52 minutes onwards
-
And also- if there is the possibility that the aql God gave us is actually misleading and flawed then we would actually not be able to establish he is qaim bil qist. In this situation us humans are helpless. But then the possibility of the situation is the problem- because as Ghamidi sahab mentioned- if we didn’t believe that God was established in justice- or if we even have an inkling of doubt in that attribute- our whole faith in him is destroyed
-
I think the answer is basically- if God was oppressive and unjust- then we would not ever be able to have the extreme love for justice that we have. I think that’s the answer. Let me know if I’m wrong
-
-
But then the question arises do why a dichotomy? We humans love justice. So our creator must like justice too. But we humans also do injustice. So why couldn’t the creator do injustice too?
I guess it would be the reason behind the injustice. We are only unjust when we are either greedy or in a difficult situation. So the creator of the universe needs nothing from humans and could not be greedy since he created the universe and needs nothing. So he would have no reason for deception or injustice.
I would really like some input on if these arguments are making sense or if I’m just saying things that aren’t coherent
-
As a side note- if someone says that there is a multiverse and that God is lying because he is trying to get something from us so that he can get something in his other universe because of greed etc then:
What could God get from us?
He created us and the entire universe (there can only be one creator otherwise the universe would be destroyed).
It is highly unlikely that the creator of this whole universe would need to deceive its creation to get something for its other universe. It is actually an absurd proposition that he would do so.
-
No I think you’re making perfect sense. His Being is free of need (Al Ghani) and pure (Al Quddus) which also means free of everything, absolutely pure. Once this is established, and btw I would also question myself – How is this established? The laws that He has given us. They are proof. By following them, a creation (us) who is full of need, and ever dependant on creation like ourselves becomes Ghani and Pure too to an extent that I live on the principal of Ihsan. Where earlier I only wanted more, I was greedy, now I want to take less and want to give more (on every action that I do). This is how those laws changed me. So what about The One who gave those very laws?
-
Free of need I would say is because this universe is created. It can only have creator otherwise there would be turmoil. So the creator of it could not need anything from it since that would be absurd- he created the universe.
If we say that no he has another universe in which he is needy- then we would say well why would he be lying to US about his other universe. If he needs to deceive us because of that then what could he get from deceiving us?
Unless someone is forcing him to deceive us in this universe. Or unless he is a sadist
So there are two more possibilities that one could deceive because of:
1. If one is a sadist
2. If one is being forced to deceive someone else.
For an atheist wouldn’t they think no.1 about God if they hadn’t read the holy scriptures?
As believers how do we negate that God, in his circle of interaction- isn’t being forced by someone in his other universe to deceive us?
-
Free of need is by understanding His Being. The very notion that He is One. (Ahad). Now what ever is manifested from Him, whatever that might be, is His ‘creation.’ Doesn’t the question of ‘need’ then become irrelevant?
I think first we would need to rule out this possibility of need. With need, He doesn’t remain God. Then what He ‘needs’ is God. I think, because He’s dependant on it.
-
I agree we have to remove this ‘need’ attribution. But I don’t see how we could remove it in a universe that is not ours. We have to prove that the creator of THIS universe is not needy in another universe which I need to contemplate on how to do 😅
-
Some forethoughts: If God created this universe snd he was being oppressed by being made to deceive us then how could this universe remain standing?
-
And the sadist argument is simply refuted by the fact that this world is a test
-
But need becomes irrelevant when a Being who existed before everything is in question. A Being who is The First and the Last, Manifest and Non Manifest. There was nothing ever that wasn’t in His Knowledge. He could now create something due to His desire, but not His need. I think.
-
That is true. I wonder if there is a logical way we can prove the creator of the universe to be outside of time and space
-
Sponsor Ask Ghamidi
