-
Interfaith Marriage Between A Muslim Woman And An Atheist Man
Assalamu alaikum everyone. I am an atheist who is interested in marrying a muslim woman, and while we do love each other, she claims that god has forbidden her from marrying outside of the faith. I have examined the verses which are cited as forbidding interfaith marriage, and I don’t think the Quran has ever actually forbade interfaith marriage at all. Here is a link to an essay with an explanation of my reasoning. I’ve based my reasoning in this essay on the Quran, what I’ve learned from two Al-Mawrid courses, and parts of one of Ghamedi’s books. Please inform me if I have made any mistakes or if I missed any relevant verses. I am not a scholar, after all, and I wouldn’t want to misrepresent Islam, so feel free to point out any flaws you find.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pV6uqpq_Kbpu6sETeHSHnGvtx2GZOZtqaxZPjylVwdc/edit?usp=sharing
-
31 Replies
-
Interfaith Marriage Between A Muslim Woman And An Atheist Man
updated 3 years, 6 months ago
6 Members
·
31
Replies
-
It looks like the link isn’t working. I’ll try copying it instead of typing it. Maybe I made a typo.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pV6uqpq_Kbpu6sETeHSHnGvfx2GZOZtqaxZPjyIVwdc/edit?usp=sharing
-
The woman is correct in her stance.
You will find videos in following link helpful
Discussion 1536
For understanding Ghamidi sb point of view about these verse you can refer to Al Bayan-
II’ll watch these videos, thank you. Perhaps one of them can address my arguments.
-
I have watched the videos that were in English or had English subtitles (unfortunately, I don’t speak Urdu), and the scholars aren’t necessarily agreeing that interfaith marriage is forbidden. They seem to think that if an agreement is reached and that the spouse isn’t a polytheist (which I am not), then the marriage can be done.
Regardless, the videos didn’t address my arguments. I believe that the forbiddance of interfaith marriage is a mistaken interpretation of Islam, as my essay explains.
-
I didnt know you dont speak Urdu.
I will try to summarize the argument.
Since marriage is an institution for bringing up the child hence care must be taken about choosing the spouse. If someone is intrested to promote same religious thought in children then interfaith marriage is not allowed.About your comment on verses
1) You right about 60:102) Verse 4:25: If you understand the language of Quran, it gives us very important rule (apart from integrating slaves into society) even if a person claims to be a Muslim, we should make sure that person is believing person keeping in mind the objective of marriage institution (this was told by Ghamidi sb in one of video offcoarse in urdu withour reference to the verse).
3) Verse 2:221: Ghamidi sb writes in his exgesis that although it was specific to arabs but if same belief is found today, this principle will be applicable. Although atheist donot fall in category of polytheist but still muslims should marry a person who believe in one God. According to Ghamidi sb understanding, we should not even marry a non practicing muslim too considering the objective marriage in Islam.
5)Verse 5:5 : From verse 4:25 and verse 2:221, we have already come to conclusion that muslim should not marry a person not beliving in one god. In the exgesis, Ghamidi sb have written that while interpreting this verse we should be careful of word اَلْیَوْمَ which signifies Tawhid as supreme point. Also, he mentioned that Jews and christians are technically claim to believe in god thats why the permission was given to men for marrying “good chracter women”. According to Ghamidi sb and his teacher Ahsan Islahi sb (based on words in the verses), these verses were revealed when Muslim became a political power and couldnot be influenced by other culture. Ghamidi sb argues that in todays era, even Muslim man should avoid marrying of books.
Btw it only allows to marry people of book, not atheist or polytheist.I hope it helps. May be @Irfan76 @UmerQureshi @faisalharoon can add more to what I have written or correct me if I am wrong
-
Thank you for taking the time to consider what I’ve written.
It makes sense that if someone wants to have consensus on beliefs when raising a child that they should marry someone of the same religion, but what if both spouses are okay with having 2 different viewpoints in the same home? What if they agree to each teach the child their beliefs and let the child decide for himself what to think? Having an atheist father and muslim mother means the child will only be exposed to one religion, so it’s not as though my lack of faith would corrupt their muslim upbringing like being a polytheist would.
2. I don’t see how 4:25 says what you claim it says. To me, it seems to be encouraging muslims to see each other as equals for the purposes of marriage, regardless of whether they’re enslaved. Where does it say that spouses must be believing?
3. If it applies to people with the same beliefs today, then why doesn’t 9:5 apply to people today? How is 2:221 eternal while 9:5 is temporary?That seems contradictory, and the Quran contains no contradictions, so they must both apply to modern times, or neither do. I think both you and I agree that making war on the polytheists no longer applies, so that must mean that 2:221 doesn’t apply either. You’re right that an atheist is not a polytheist, but then you claim that muslims should only marry someone who believes in one god. I don’t think the Quran ever states that rule. Is that actually a rule of Islam, or was that a rule made by the reasoning of humans? As for the objective of marriage: me being atheist doesn’t interfere with teaching the children about Islam. When my wife sets out to teach them Islam, I won’t stop her.
5. How do you know that Tawhid is the supreme point? Is it not equally likely that it is the Jews’ and Christrians’ lack of polytheism that makes their women eligible for marriage, rather than their professed monotheism? As for your second point, and like I said before, I won’t be pushing another religion on the children, so what does it matter whether Islam is dominant in society or not? As for the last point, it only allows marrying women of the book, but it never disallows any other form of marriage, and something is permitted in Islam unless it is forbidden.
-
-
1)The rules are not made for exceptions but for general population. Its probable you wouldnt have much influence on Kids buut cannot be ruled out. I know it because my thought process is similar to my father still.
2) The context and linguistic of Quranic tells to marry a practicing person. If it was any person then الۡمُؤۡمِنٰتِ would have been missing.
3) Verse 9:5 is in context of Itmam – e Hujjah (Completion of Proof) which applies to only prophet, not common person. Chapter 9 deals with that. Since Muslim men are allowed to marry people of book that how we know that whom a muslim should marry. Rules are not made for exceptional cases.
4) According to Ghamidi sb and his teacher exgesis, اَلْیَوْمَ point out to that reality.
5) Quran linguistic tells us what is forbidden what is not. Eg Alcohol has not been explicitly mentioned to be haram. But from the linguistics we know actually it is forbidden.
-
Peace!
Ahsan Bhai, I think the points raised by Dr. Farhad Shafti need to be brought into consideration:
-
Thanks for sharing the link. I read his views.
I am of opinion that even muslim men should not marry non muslims these days because of obvious reasons. Offcoarse these verse are talking about kafir etc, but we have come to know the principle. We need to understand the principle here, we need to promote tawhid in our families which can be endangered if marry outside Islam. -
I understand “should,” Bhai, but God has explicitly forbidden us to make anything Haram or Halal by ourselves. Dr. Shafti’s argument, I think, clarifies that God has not made marriage outside Islam Haram. After that, we can, and should, only advise (if we agree about Dr. Shafti’s argument).
-
As the other person pointed out, these prohibitions you’re mentioning are only coming from you, not God, and while these are valid concerns when considering interfaith marriage, that does not make interfaith marriage haram for muslims.
Unless you or anyone else can present proof from the quran that interfaith marriage is haram, then I must conclude that I was correct and that it is halal.
-
As I said, QUranic linguistic tells us the prohibiton even though it donot directly say its prohibited. I gave u example of alcohol. Similarly Quranic language tells us to not marry outside Islam except for women among people of book.
-
II’m afraid I can’t read Arabic, so I can’t really understand the linguistic points of your argument, but you seem to be presuming the existence of a rule. Isn’t it haram for Muslims to declare something haram? Doesn’t god alone have the authority to do so?
Also, I looked at the verse forbidding alcohol, and it explicitly forbade intoxicants, of which alcohol is one. So that forbiddance (and every other Quranic forbiddance I know of) is specific and explicit. We aren’t left to guess at its existence. There have been no explicit forbiddances of interfaith marriage in the Quran which would apply in the modern day, and since every quranic prohibition I’m aware of is specific and explicit, we shouldn’t try to invent rules based on implications and ambiguity.
-
I will research more. If I get a better answer, I will share with you.
-
Thank you for sharing this! I didn’t know that there were scholars of Islam who agreed with my understanding of the Quran. This gives me hope that I haven’t misinterpreted anything and that God truly never forbade interfaith marriage.
-
To my knowlege interfaith marriage is only allowed with Christians and Jews who “believe”. The “believe” means believing in one God and not doing shirk. Thus, a Muslim cannot marry a Christian either if a Christian believes Jesus to be son of God.
-
-
-
Please see the following link with all verses of Quran on the topic of marriage. Quran clearly states to marry only believing person. Atheists are not believing person.
-
Thank you for the video. I have revisited all of the verses that it lists. You claim that the Quran explicitly says to only marry a believing person. Where does it say this? (Please read my essay or Dr.shafti’s essay before answering. That way, I can avoid having to repeat arguments I’ve already made.)
-
Mr. Douglas. I was an atheist for a major part of my life too. I am not a scholar, but I read Quran very carefully numerous times. I have quickly read your article and I do agree that many verses are related to a particular incident, but the basic rule that is established in those incident still stands. A major part of Quran is repetition and stories from the past. The purpose of the stories is to covey a message not to merely tell stories. So, to me the underlying message in the 2:221 is clear not to marry nonbelievers.
-
I agree that the Quran is trying to do more than just tell stories, and I am not a scholar either. If you believe that 2:221 applies to the modern day, do you believe that 9:5 applies to the modern day as well? How about 5:51? If 2:221 applies to modern muslims, then these other two verses must apply as well, correct? The Quran has no contradictions, after all.
-
Douglas, based on my experience, rather than taking a verses from here and there to make a point, If merely for general knowledge try to read Quran translation to its entirety. If you read it sincerely, everything will become clear. At least that was my experience. For quick reading you can perhaps read chapter 75 forward. Perhaps that might lead you to a better solution to your predicament. Any text or any book can be argued in any direction. There are no bounds to any arguments. Also, to my knowledge, Quran is designed to lead people in the direction of their inherent intention. In my opinion, Allah deliberately didn’t want to have a 100% clarity and a 100% proof of his existence; otherwise it would have violated the purpose of our existence in this World to be here for a test.
[2:221] Do not marry idolatresses unless they believe; a believing woman is better than an idolatress, even if you like her. Nor shall you give your daughters in marriage to idolatrous men, unless they believe. A believing man is better than an idolater, even if you like him. These invite to Hell, while GOD invites to Paradise and forgiveness, as He wills. He clarifies His revelations for the people, that they may take heed.
Now, verse 2:221 has no ambiguity. The underlying message is clear that marriage is only allowed with the believers. And by the way there are 7 articles of belief, but the most critical being not to do shirk. The verse talks about idol worshipers as a reference, but also clearly states the general rule.
——————–
[5:51] O you who believe, do not take certain Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide the transgressors.
This verse is true even today. It talks about CERTAIN Jews and Christians who are behaving in a WICKED manner. If that situation happens today, the inherent message of the verse applies not to have friendship with them.
———————
[9:4] If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous.
[9:5] Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Similarly, if the similar situation happens today, the rules applies. The above verses to my knowledge are related to when Prophet Muhammad was present between the people and if prophet’s direct invitation to Islam is violated then Allah’s orders comes to punish people. This only applies to Prophet Muhammad and when he is physically present among people. In the past Allah punished people himself using various disasters, but during Prophet Muhammad, he was given the responsibility to punish people himself. This situation will not occur any more as there will be no more prophets.
-
-
Please see:
-
Hello Faisal, thank you for sharing the other threads. I don’t think any of the videos shared in those threads have english subtitles though. Unfortunately, the only language I know is English. But regardless of those videos, I already know Ghamidi’s reasoning. He believes that marriage as an institution was established by god to ensure the passage of Islam from one generation to the next (among other purposes). While it seems likely that Islam promotes family for this purpose, this is only a presumption being made by us, humans. While it is often beneficial to understand the reasoning behind Islamic rules, it is haram for us to invent new ones based on assumptions. When the Quran forbids something, it is clear. If we start inventing rules based on what we presume about the Quran’s intentions, then we’re making the same mistake as the muslims who falsely assumed that they could not go to their spouses on the nights of Ramadan (2:187). The bottom line is that only God has the authority to declare something haram, and based on my understanding of the Quran, there are no verses applicable today that forbid interfaith marriage. If you believe I am incorrect in my understanding, then please read my essay or Dr. Shafti’s essay and let me know where my reasoning is incorrect.
-
-
Verses 5:5 and 2:221 are very clear about marriage and with whom it can be done. It is true that Verse 2:221 is specifically talking about Polytheists of that time but the same verse also has a generic nature in it when it uses principle statement that “And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you“, and similarly, “And a believing slave is better than a polytheist even though he might please you”. Similarly, verse 5:5 is giving an explicit list of which females can be married to and exludes the polytheists in that list, which is quite enough to understand the meaning of this verse and there is no linguistic compulsion to mention polytheist females as Haram separately, as it is the only logical conclusion that doesn’t need any explaining. In verse 2:187, the use of term “you used to deceive yourself” refers to the fact that Muslims after seeing the practice of Jews used to believe that initmate relationships with wives were prohibited even during nights of Ramdhan and yet they used to do that at night against their initial belief which they developed on their own from Jews. Quran simply corrected this belief and pointed out this practice of theirs.
All the verses that were revealed were specific to begin with, but it is the linguistics and presence and /or absence of certain conditions (illat) within the same verse which decides the universality of a verse. The verse 9:5 that you referred to was also time-speific, as the condition for such a directive was i) the presence of a Messenger among the people and ii) a group of people who explicitly denies that Messenger after knowing the truth. Since none of this condition exists today, therefore, this ruling cannot be entended to today’s time. Quran has mentioned this law more than any other thing w.r.t all the messengers that came to this world and what happens when the people deny that Messenger even after knowing the truth (also known as ‘Kuffar’).
People of the book believe in one God and they do Polytheism in their interpretation of monotheism and Quran has clearly declared this belief to be a polytheistic belief. Since their belief is primarily based on monotheism, that is why this allowance was given to Muslims to marry their women. However, Polytheism on the other hand is not based on interpretation of monotheism as opposed to people of the book, therefore, clear prohibition exists to marry polytheists. Atheism, although not mentioned in Quran, doesn’t share any monotheistic base whatsoever (as is the case with people of the book), infact it stands in denial of God. Therefore, it is only logical that marriage of a Muslim with an atheist should also be considered within the same category as that of a polytheist.
-
Everyone here has brought up good counterarguments, and I’d like to thank you all for taking the time and effort to contribute to this thread and to consider my essay. I recognize the points you’ve brought up in opposition to my proposal, but I have counter points to those points, which I’m sure everyone would also have even more counter points too. Thus, I think this argument could potentially go on forever, and that both sides have valid perspectives. Ultimately, our disagreements in this thread are without consequence compared to the next debate I must have: the discussion I must have with my beloved.
I will present to her my arguments and Dr. Shafti’s arguments, and I will show her the counter points made by all of you. I’m sure she’ll also have points of her own to make. In the end, she will either be convinced by my arguments, or not, and she will decide whether to marry me accordingly. Whatever she decides to believe, I will respect her opinion as I have respected all of yours, and if she believes it would be haram to marry me, then I will not pressure her to do so.
Thank you all again for the help you’ve rendered me, and though I may not believe in him, may god bless all of you for your kindness.
-
Best of luck
-
It has been a blast, Douglas. May God be with you. Let us know how it goes. 😊
-
-
Douglas, based on you writings you seem to be a very nice person. I wish you good luck too. I would also like to say that you are already half way to be a believer. To believe, you first have to reject false gods and you are already rejecting them all.
This is for sure that if someone is kind with pure heart who is searching for answers, Allah always guides such people to the right path. If you haven’t already, I would recommend again to consider reading Quran to its entirety. Perhaps you will find a better solution for your quest.
I tried to summarize Quran by including all important verses together for a quick read, but honestly it doesn’t do justice as compared to reading it cover to cover. Here are the links.
-
Thank you for your well wishes. I may not have read the Quran in its entirety, but I have read about 250 pages so far. I’ve been studying Islam for about two years in an attempt to convert, but after much struggle and emotional torment, there is still so little reason to believe, and some big things about Islam that I disagree with. I’m done trying to be Muslim I think, and while a world without an afterlife or ultimate justice is a bleak one, it also seems most likely to be true to me.
-
Douglas, your last statement very likely makes you a Muslim. You stated “It also seems most likely to be true to me”. This is more belief than many so called born Muslims have. I do not think there is anyone who would have absolute belief on Allah without ever being weak. Even some prophets asked Allah for a sign.
There are overwhelming signs that it is true. What if it is all not true, then what do we loose… nothing. It only requires belief and not committing Shirk.
On the other hand if it is all true, we may end up regretting for an eternal life.
I couldn’t find any more authentic religion. I believe if nothing else, my belief is an insurance for a good eternal life. If it is not true, what am I loosing, a belief, doing good deeds, helping other people, giving charity, etc.
You can explore your doubt further and ask questions to Ghamidi Sahib. There is no other better scholar to explain everything.
Atheism is conjecture and opinion, while Islam is based on solid ground. The goal shouldn’t be 100% proof, but overwhelming proof.
-
Sponsor Ask Ghamidi
