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Is There A "Fitrah" Innate Guidance
I am starting a new thread because I answered brother Nadeem’s question and it started the above discussion. I thought it is better we discuss it separately. Here’s brother Nadeem’s answer when i asked him about references from Quran about innate guidance
Brother Faraz: I believe in science but science is not everything and it is not error free. Science hasn’t even ventured into our soul, life or creation. It is completely silent. Concept of Allah is much higher than science.
Regarding people who search for meaning may not come to Islam for many reasons. We do not know if they are satisfied with other religions. So I do not think that is a reliable judgement.
Anyhow, here are the Ayahs that directly or indirectly tell us that the concept of one God and the concept of right and wrong are built into us. Just think deeper and look into the indirect meaning. Some verses are quite obvious, such as 30:30.
7:172, 7:173, 30:30, 33:72, 36:60, 40:67, 45:22, 55:4, 76:2
[7:172] Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them bear witness for themselves: “Am I not your Lord?” They all said, “Yes. We bear witness.” Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, “We were not aware of this.”
[7:173] Nor can you say, “It was our parents who practiced idolatry, and we simply followed in their footsteps. Will You punish us because of what others have innovated?”
[30:30] Therefore, you shall devote yourself to the religion of strict monotheism. Such is the natural instinct placed into the people by GOD. Such creation of GOD will never change. This is the perfect religion, but most people do not know.
[36:60] Did I not covenant with you, O Children of Adam, that you shall not worship the devil? That he is your most ardent enemy?
[40:67] He is the One who created you from dust, and subsequently from a tiny drop, then from a hanging embryo, then He brings you out as a child, then He lets you reach maturity, then you become old – some of you die earlier. You attain a predetermined age, that you may understand.
[45:22] GOD created the heavens and the earth for a specific purpose, in order to pay each soul for whatever it earned, without the least injustice.
[55:1] The Most Gracious.
[55:2] Teacher of the Quran.
[55:3] Creator of the human beings.
[55:4] He taught them how to distinguish.
[76:1] Is it not a fact that there was a time when the human being was nothing to be mentioned?
[76:2] We created the human from a liquid mixture, from two parents, in order to test him. Thus, we made him a hearer and a seer.
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15 Replies
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Is There A "Fitrah" Innate Guidance
updated 3 years, 4 months ago
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15
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Yes, science isn’t everything, absolutely true. My argument is simple, if there’s an innate guidance then we should’ve seen it abundantly in archeological records, philosophical history, psychological investigations. Because fitrah or nature isnt something anyone can hide, it just oozes through everything one does or thinks. Tauheed is absent from religions we came to know from archeological findings, excavation studies, studies of aboriginals from Africa, Australia. I do not understand how can man go against his nature globally throughout history?? We find monotheism in all religious texts (likely from revelation from Allah) but not when man tried to understand the universe on his own.
Beside innate guidance should guide us in the most basic morality. We don’t find it either. Earlier man killed his older family members to preserve food supply, man and women remain naked unless in winter. Still aboriginals in australia do not cover themselves because it their climate they dont need to! I ask you why the innate guidance didnt tell these people to honor their parents or cover their bodies?? the absolute basics of morality?
regarding the ayahs you mentioned, yes, if you read them separately it does indicate an innate nature but in context it doesn’t
7:172-173 plz read from 159, its narrating the history of Bani Israel, how Allah kept giving them chances and they kept disobeying Allah. Ayah 171: And ˹remember˺ when We raised the mountain over them as if it were a cloud and they thought it would fall on them. ˹We said,˺ “Hold firmly to that ˹Scripture˺ which We have given you and observe its teachings so perhaps you will become mindful ˹of Allah
Ponder the sequence, does it make any sense if we believe 172 is telling us about an innate guidance? How could bani Israel remember the covenant? None of us remember that!
it was told to them in the scripture or by their prophets and they were reminded of that fact rather than something else
30:30 Allah talking about His signs around us and then in ayah 30 Allah asking Muhammad SA ( And all of us) to follow the Deen of Allah! Thats what Allah called it “His nature” upon which He created all of mankind. Immediately after Allah tells us that this is the correct deen. I don’t see how can we put an innate nature idea in this sequence.
Brother Nadeem, may I ask what translation are you using? Plz compare a word to word translation from Quran.com to your translation, i do feel its skipping and rotating few words
Allah put consciousness in us and a yearning in us to look for meaning and tauheed makes most sense to us if we look into it but thats a “choice” we have to make to understand tauheed. There’s no innate guidance that will take us to tauheed or only be satisfied with tauheed. Neither fitrah is something that can guide us on its own. It needs the torch of Wahee to find its true nature, the deen of Allah. (plz refer to tabbadur al quran as well)
I didn’t understand the rest of the ayahs you mentioned, also couldnt understand how the word “Al-bayan” be translated as “to distinguish” 55:4
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Please refer to Ghamidi sahab’s videos on this topic which should clarify a lot in regards to fitrah:
This is a complex topic however these are excellent videos that I recommend to watch multiple times.
Additionally, we have many previous discussions on Ask Ghamidi on this topic where moderators have tried to clarify various aspects of fitrah. You will have to sift through these to find the relevant ones, but the list is not too long:
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Thank you brother Faisal
I saw these already but will listen to it again
The idea is good and seem plausible but there’s just no evidence and if there’s innate fitrah of good or bad then there should be tons of data and Quran and Hadith would be full of references but they aren’t. Nafs e Lawamma was mentioned once, we acquire that nafs much later in life
Thanks for your input
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Plenty of evidence is provided in these videos. Also the Quran and the Sunnah leave a lot of things on human nature, as has been explained in these videos, as opposed to providing details. In fact religion only interferes where something innate needs further elaboration, or there’s a chance of error. Quran verse 30:30 categorically conveys this concept. While it’s still not scientifically possible to gather much useful data in this regard from newborns, there are still some useful studies done that validate the concept of a-priori knowledge.
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Let me watch the videos again then I’ll share my thoughts
The whole problem is that we r assuming fitrah as “self guided” or even able to guide humans in tauheed and basic morality. This particular fact is hard to prove.
Regarding 30:30, plz clarify as I can’t see the meaning u mentioned in the words of the ayah
No disagreement about innate idea of good or bad, some studies in infants and children do show that but very rudimentary.
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Brother Faraz, you are assuming that one realizes fitrzh and the person follows it too. That rarely happens.
An examples. I was trying to make a hole in an object in my hand with a knife. My internal voice told me repeatedly that the knife will slip and impale my hand. I ignored the voice and next the knife impaled my hand.
Anyone can hear the internal voice, but people normally ignore it.
The voice tells right from wrong, but we ignore it by overwhelming it by our logic, reasoning and overconfidence.
Whether there is a voice telling us that there is only one god? I don’t know. But I always imagined one god even when I was an atheist. Perhaps my thoughts were influenced because I was born in a Muslim family.
Dr. Zakir Naik refers to a study of Australian aborigines or Amazonians. They had no outside influence, yet they believed in one god.
To prove if the voice exists to tell us about one God, I earlier asked the question, how to awaken that voice. With some hard work, everyone should be able to hear that voice. I haven’t heard from anyone a method to achive the level to hear the internal voice.
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I am about to drive home so I’ll be brief
Brother Nadeem, that’s not true. Plz read the following
https://www.aboriginalculture.com.au/religion
.html
Brother Faisal I’ll watch the videos. Is Albayan on line? I have the tafseer but it’s not accessible to me for next few days/week
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@Faraz sahab
Please see the explanation of Quran verse 30:30 in Al-Bayan. This verse is also discussed in the videos.
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Brother Faraz, we do not prove and verify everything in life; actually we rarely do this. If we start doing this life will stop functioning. We verify and few and then trust the rest while continue to verify based on our abilities and available time.
Similarly, based on my numerous verification, I have found Quran to be the word of Allah and always true. I haven’t found any single mistake or contradiction. Thus, I don’t need to verify every single thing in Quran before believing. Although it is my duty to continue the struggle to understand and verify remaining items. So there is no way I would ever question Quran. As I said earlier, I can question my understanding or I can question a translation of Quran; that is all.
In this case verse 30:30 is not vague. It is very straight forward and clear. So I believe, we come with the innate knowledge of one god and basic sense of right from wrong.
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So we know that there are numerous studies on children showing that we come with the basis knowledge of right from wrong. So this matter is settled as it is aligned with Quran.
Now do we come to the question of innate sense that there is one god?
I am not aware of any studies on this topic. So I can’t say, it is proven or rejected. Absence of information doesn’t negate anything.
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Absolutely brother Nadeem, whatever is in Quran is true. Any ambiguity will go away with the passage of time and with increasing understanding about our own nafs and universe.
My whole stand is that I don’t find any clear ayah stating humans r given a fitrah capable of guiding to the tauheed and morality.
30:30, I shared my understanding with u. Plz share how do we fit the idea of innate guidance in the sequence of ayahs
Please remember that when I am saying innate guidance, I mean an ability to identify tauheed and basic morality. I am not denying, in anyway, consciousness in humans that can decide that all around is created and idea of good or bad relative to surrounding.
The studies is babies does show very rudimentary idea of helping each other. This only suggests some innate idea about community living and not what we can classify “good” or “evil”. This can be explained by evolutionary psychology. Like robbing someone is bad for society but sleeping with ur sister is ok. The innate fitrah can not say it’s bad.
I am in the middle of 2nd video, will share my thoughts later insha Allah
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Brother Faraz.
Whatever the sense of right or wrong, no matter how basic it is, that is what Allah will judge the person on, providing the person doesn’t overwhelm the voice or force it to shut down.
A person without any external influence, without overwhelming or shutting his internal voice down, can have only one answer, “there is only one god”. There is no other answer.
If he says more than one then there is no limit and where did he get the number? No one with the right mind can say there is no god. If nature and randomness or some force created everything then that is the god.
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I watched 3 videos and I would highly highly recommend watching it and then watch it again.
I haven’t found anything different than what I said, potential for tauheed and good / evil is innate but need external influence and effort to materialize.(seed bears the whole tree) an example mentioned multiple times by Ghamidi sahab.
The concept of tauheed, good/bad, beauty, haya is innate and we understand it immediately when presented with it.
However, innate fitrah can not guide without revelation. For e.g revelation has to tell us that eating dog meat is haram and marrying 2 sisters at the same time is haram. Our fitrah can not decide alone.
Thank you brother Nadeem for starting the discussion and Jaza’k Allah brother Faisal for suggesting the videos
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Brother Faraz, please read my response in the other thread where we started this topic.
I think you are jumping basics and going streight to advance with the examples of marrying sisters or eating dog meat. Those are not part of Fitrah in my opinion. I think Firtah gives you basics to put you on the right path. It is like someone telling you to walk on this road. From that point you have to travel on that road to learn more.
Please read my post in the original thread. Fitrah will only direct a person to the path of Islam. All the other stuff you learn from Quran thereafter, such as not marry sisters or not eat dog meat.
As Allah said in Quran to humans that he is sending them to earth and then he will send his guidance and whoever will follow his guidance will be successful. He didn’t say everything is in Fitrah.
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Yes brother Nadeem, I did read your response. I disagree that fitrah gives u any basics to put one on the right path.
Fitrah, is nothing but an innate sense of meaning, a potential or ability to arrive at the truth if given proper environment/education etc. Thats why people find meaning in all sort of different paths. We can say that those people’s fitrah is corrupted but they can say the same exact thing about us!! Whatever we say corrupted their fitrah also applies to us from their perspective.
I didn’t jump from basics, I read it in this forum that fitrah can guide in religious matters (I am paraphrasing) so I gave an example that it can not guide on its own
Ghamidi sahab’s opinion that people are answerable because of this fitrah is hard to understand because this fitrah is very easily corrupted by so many influences. I can not disagree with him cuz it’ll be like a bicycle trying to outrun an aeroplane
He speaks from a religious perspective, man was given wahi after he was made aware of his fitrah (adam and eve in jannah). Because man is made answerable thats why Allah guided his fitrah by wahi in contrast to other form of knowledge which evolved slowly over hundreds of years. His explanation makes lot of sense. However, it all falls apart when we look at available historical records (archeology, philosophy etc) to-date, in egyptology, there is no archeological evidence for existence of Yusuf AS or Musa AS or exodus ever happening. No evidence doesn’t mean its false but it also doesn’t mean its true!
If Ghamidi sahab’s viewpoint is true we should be able to have a historical narrative of this guidance always present during different periods of human existence. Yes, we do find tauheed in all major religions like hinduism, chinese philosophy etc but its too scarce. But its definitely there!
In summary, we have consciousness that enable us to ask questions and innately accepts and understand tauheed and morality. But its very easily corrupted by external influences and hence, required proper guidance to find its true nature. On its own, fitrah can not guide neither provide basis for anything.
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Great to have a rich conversation with you brother Faraz. I agree with you that we don’t come with fitrah for all kinds of religious details.
I certainly believe that there is fitrah of basic guidance of one god and basic sense of right or wrong, fair or unfair. Following that sense if someone looks for a religion that complies with that Fitrah, the person cannot go to any religion but Islam.
But many people neither think, nor put effort into finding the truth. Either they follow their parents or easily get influenced by others.
The details of why people dont follow fitrah is another topic.
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