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Scheme Of Test And Nihilism
There are atheists and then there are those who can’t justify the existence of this Universe without a creator but their main issue is the randomness and uncertainty found in human life, and tons of suffering.
Just to quote a star from WHO, every 40 seconds, a person takes his own life. Which means by the time you will finish reading this questions, someone would have taken his own life. This is so so disturbing and it’s just one fact.
So, our issue is not that the creator doesn’t exist, it’s just that his scheme of examination is incomprehensible and seems unjust and unfair.
It’s like saying to the one who went through something horrific that this was meant to be and this is your examination and there is a reason behind this which is your test.
So, in this scenario, nihilism makes more sense instead of God’s scheme of examination.
Why would he make us go through so much when he could have created an ideal world, he is God, we are nothing in front of him.
Even if there was going to be some examination, you could set out a less gruesome scheme.
How to make peace with it?
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13 Replies
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Scheme Of Test And Nihilism
updated 2 years, 8 months ago
4 Members
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13
Replies
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Remember you are trying to understand God who is all knowing and all wise wth your limited intellect and wisdom.
Randomness is defined as something which dont follow pattern. Isnt it possible what you think is random might have a pattern which you are unable to comprehend? There are literally examples where we though there is no pattern turns out to have a pattern later on.
Since Allah didn’t tell us why the examination we cannot comprehend the answer due to our limitations.
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I am not trying to Understand God’s Zaat, just his plans and creations, he asks himself to ponder on the signs and the Universe and this question arises then. And the only source I have is my cognitive ability of questioning.
I just don’t understand the pattern because I can’t see any. Or is this one of those things that you have to believe because God has said so?
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@faisalharoon @UmerQureshi @Irfan76
Please share your views too.
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Two points.
God’s scheme of test and reward and punishment makes complete sense. If this world is not a test it is but an a futile and gruesome endeavour of God or natural forces. If hereafet is not there, this all is unjust. The world and the life make sense only when world has its counterpart where all the injustice pain and suffering will be compensated and also the rest of intellect and conscience will be rewarded.
Second point. If God willed He could have not done that. Yes. He could have not done this or could have made it less severe. But He chose to do it this way. This is His will.
At the end when we will have our eternal rewards we will think of life and suffering here worth it. Rather we will be thankful to be compensated eternally for a very short span of test and suffering.
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‘He chose to do it this way’
This is where the objection is, why did he choose this way over a billion others that he could have invented, why the path towards God is a part of suffering and not of sole bliss?
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For who would dare to assert that eternal happiness can compensate for a single moment’s of human suffering?”
~ Albert Camus.
So, we can’t know the reasons behind God’s will? Just accept is as it is, no questions, no doubts?
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We can have our objection here. But here ends our limit. This is His will. We have to accept. He decided to do it this way. He told us that we dared to choose it with our free will. He presented this to mountains and skies they shrank and refuses to hold it, but human came forward to hold it.
We can ask God on the day of judgement why He did it and not some other way. We hope to have the response. This is what a poet very beautifully put. If you can understand Urdu.
قیامت میں ذرا سا تخلیہ بھی
کہ تم سے بھی ہمیں کچھ پوچھنا ہے
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Does nihilism (denial of God as well as any purpose in life) make more sense just because someone is unable to comprehend God’s scheme? That’s completely irrational and illogical. Just because someone doesn’t understand Calculus doesn’t deny the existence of Calculus.
People who fall for this kind of line of reasoning have generally not spent any serious time or sincere effort in trying to understand the truth. I am yet to come across a single denier of the concept of God who has already read the entire Quran or has at least adequately understood God’s message and His scheme before criticizing it. More often than not people take only a small portion of the concept of God acquired from hearsay stories or a few books/videos, blow it out of proportion, apply their own speculations and baseless logic, and then conclude that God doesn’t exist. While such behavior doesn’t put any dent on the concept or the existence of God, it is however ignorant and profoundly self deceiving.
I’m not sure where you came up with the suicide stats you shared above, but the real rate of suicide in human beings is extremely low. According to the World Health Organization (WHO) less than 10 out of 100,000 people committed suicide in 2019; that’s 0.0001% of every 100,000 population globally.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.STA.SUIC.P5
Such an insignificant rate of suicide in humanity despite all the pain and suffering is evidence within itself that humanity as a whole has understood and accepted the test, whether consciously or subconsciously.
Atheism is a completely baseless idea. This universe and our own existence within it cannot be explained without the concept of God, period. If there were any alternative plausible theories available, that would be a completely different story. In that case we would compare the God hypothesis with other theories to determine the most plausible one just like we do the same in science. Unfortunately that’s not the case. Many people think that science provides such alternative theories but I can confidently tell you that it does not. If you want to discuss any of the modern scientific theories such as the Neo-Darwinism or the Big Bang in a separate thread, I can show you how they’re purely speculative as opposed to a scientifically established concept of God. Even if such speculations are true they’re logically absurd without accepting an intelligent agent behind them.
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@faisalharoon Sb, you have made your whole point proving the existence of God which I never denied, I mentioned explicitly that it cannot be denied no matter what.
My confusion is around the scheme and method of examination, and the suicide stats were just one little fact to point out in that direction. I got the stats from WHO:
https://www.who.int/news/item/09-09-2019-suicide-one-person-dies-every-40-seconds
And you are right it *seems* insignificance when compared with the rest of the population but I think would be absolutely unfair if we totally neglect them as exceptions.
I just want to know that when God could have created an ideal world, why didn’t he? Why did he chose this gruesome scheme of examination? He is God, he could have made a million other schemes that would be less cruel and still serve the purpose. Now you may say, I am trying to grasp the doings of God with my limited knowledge but unfortunately that’s all that I have, he has given me the ability to question. I know God is merciful but it just doesn’t make sense to me why choose this scheme and method? Has this been explained or answered in the Quran?
I ask you, for a second, to just forget any concept of a supreme being and just become human, nothing more and nothing less. In this state, if you are given the power to either create an ideal world where there is no suffering and misery or create a world that is full of them?
Which option would you choose?
I am sure that almost everyone will choose the former, I just want to ask why God being the almighty chose the latter?
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Thank you for sharing a reference to your stats. It just sounds like a big number when presented that way.
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If anyone was given a chance to create an ideal testing ground, there’s nothing they’d be able to improve.
When people say an ideal world, they refer to a place without pain and suffering. I advise anyone to take on the exercise of trying to sketch a perfect world where there’s no pain and suffering and yet it’s a perfect place where human beings with intellect and free will could be tested for discovery and submission to truth, patience, upholding of moral code, empathy, justice, and a myriad of other aspects that this world tests us with. I’m certain that very soon they will figure out that what they’re asking for is a logical absurdity.
How does a belief that there’s no purpose in life curb any pain and suffering? Pain and suffering is the order of the world and there’s no denying it. Instead of trying to understand it, simply believing that life has no purpose doesn’t solve the problem. It’s just a humble submission of one’s own lack of understanding and laziness; since Calculus is too difficult for us, so instead of putting in the effort to learn it, we’ll just pretend that it’s purposeless.
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It might be a logical absurdity for humans since they are limited in everything. If you are saying that this was the best scheme of examination that God could come up with then this really doesn’t help.
I guess why God chose this would remain a mystery and we will have to ask him about it and he will guide us.
Thanks for the response!
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I have no doubts in God’s capabilities; after all I’m living this life knowing that one day soon enough God will create a world of perpetual happiness. My sincere advice was to the human being who himself is concluding that the current scheme is broken to suggest how it could be improved keeping its purpose in mind. The fact of the matter is that no one can suggest any improvements in a system that’s already perfect. A world beyond human understanding might provide a basis for such speculations but nihilism within the current scheme is just a self deceiving epitome of intellectual dishonesty.
There’s no mystery about God’s scheme for this world. He has already clearly laid it out for those of us who desire to understand it. However, I’m sure that on the Day of Judgement we will find further details that don’t concern us at this time.
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