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Dhulqarnain: Alexander Or Cyrus
If you take the story the Zhul Qarnain literally, then l agree with Ghamdi sahab as Alexander the Great wasn’t only a polytheist, he didn’t construct any wall to stop Gog Magog. Cyprus the great as we know from the source was extremely important to the Jews ( he freed them ) and besides being a just king, he was also a monotheist. The Daryal Gorge seems to be the likely location of the barrier and it doesn’t exist anymore but we can find its iron remains. The people who spoke a language that was hardly understandable is clearly Georgian, as it doesn’t have any linguistic link to neighboring languages. In this case, Gog Magog were the Khazar people specifically ( a descendant of Gog Magog). What’s interesting is this location lies between two seas, fitting the Quranic description.
However, if you take the story of Zhul Qarnain to be a legend only then it refers to Alexander the Great. Quran is responding to the Alexander legend, which is a syriac text written in 629 or 630 AD , even 614 AD according to some historians.
Here’s a summary of the text “The story of the Neshanâ begins when King Alexander summons his court toask them about the outer edges of the world, for he wishes to go to see whatsurrounds it. His advisors warn him that there is a fetid sea, Oceanos. like pus, surrounding the earth, and that to touch those waters is death. Alexander is undeterred and wishes to go on this quest. He prays to God, whom he addresses as the one who put horns upon his head, for power over the entire earth, and he promises God to obey the Messiah should he arrive during his lifetime or, if not, to put his own throne in Jerusalem for the Messiah to sit upon when he does come. This in essence matches Quran 18:83–4, part one earlier, where God gives the two-horned one power over the entire earth.
On the way, he stops in Egypt where he borrows seven thousand Egyptian workers of brass and iron from the king of Egypt to accompany his huge army.Then they set sail for four months and twelve days until they reach a distant land . Alexander asks the people there if they have any prisoners condemned to death in their prisons, and he asks that those evil-doers (‘abday-bîmê) be brought to him. He takes the prisoners and sends them into the fetid sea in order to test the potency of the poisonous waters. All the evil-doers die, so Alexander, realizing how deadly it is, gives up his attempt to cross the water. Instead he goes to a place of bright water, up to the Window of the Heavens that the sun enters when it sets, where there is a conduit of some kind leading through the heavens toward the place where the sun rises in the east. Though the text is completely vague here in its description of spaces, apparently Alexander follows the sun through its course to the east during the night but “descends” (nahet) at the mountain called Great Mûsas.His troops go with him. We are also told that when the sun rises in the eastern land, the ground becomes so hot that to touch it is to be burnt alive, so that people living there flee the rising sun to hide in caves and in the water of the sea. Alexander’s journeys west and east match Quran 18:85–91, parts two and three earlier, exactly in many specific details and in fact make some sense of the cryptic Qur’anic story (though the Syriac leaves the specifics of his itinerary here fairly murky)
We next find Alexander traveling at the headwaters of the Euphrates and the Tigris, where he and his armies stop at locales given very specific place-names. This specificity has rightly been taken as due to the Syriac author’s personal familiarity with the upper Tigris region, probably his homeland. Yet Alexander continues northwards into mountains, evidently the Caucasus, until he comes to a place under Persian rule where there is a narrow pass. The locals complain about the savage Huns who live on the opposite side of the pass. The names of their kings are listed to him, the first two of which are Gog and Magog. Alexander is treated to a vivid description of the barbarism of the Huns. Among the gruesome details it is reported that their cries are more terrible than those of a lion. The Huns have no qualms in killing babies and pregnant women. In short, they do not know civilization but only brutality. The people complain to Alexander that these savages raid with impunity and they hope his dominion will be established. After he satisfies his anthropological and geographical curiosity about the far northern peoples, Alexander asks the locals if they want a favor, and they answer that they would follow his command. So he suggests building a wall of brass and iron to hold out the Huns. Together they accomplish the task with the help of the Egyptian metalworkers. This account matches Quran 18:92–8, part four earlier, in precise detail.
The next part of the story is crucial to dating the text. Alexander puts an inscription on the gate containing a prophecy for events to follow his lifetime. These events are given precise dates. First he says that after 826 years, the Huns will break through the gate and go by the pass above the Haloras River to plunder the lands. Then after 940 years, there will come a time of sin and unprecedented worldwide war . “The Lord will gather together the kings and their hosts,” he will give a signal to break down the wall, and the armies of the Huns, Persians, and Arabs will “fall upon each other.” So many troops will pass through the breach in the wall that the passage will actually be worn wider by the spear-points going through. “The earth shall melt through the blood and dung of men.” Then the kingdom of the Romans will enter this terrible war and they will conquer all, up to the edges of the heavens. In closing, Alexander cites the prophet Jeremiah, 1:14, “And evil shall be opened from the north upon all the inhabitants of the earth.” Clearly this corresponds closely with Q 18:99–102, the fifth and last part of the story of Dhu l-Qarnayn.
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Dhulqarnain: Alexander Or Cyrus
updated 2 years, 6 months ago
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Kahf is makkan surah. u r implying a book reached to mecca in old time as soon as it was written. Also, that syriac text was discovered in 17 century.
Read book of bible Isaiah, Daniel, Ezra. You will understand.-
As a Muslim, l believe the Quran was revealed to the Prophet. My explanation doesn’t imply the Quran was copied from an oral or written transmission in circulation.
Since you are using Sirah Ishaq or hadith literature to infer the Surah was revealed in the meccan phase. The background story only serves to support my stance. The meccan mushrikeen consulted with Jewish rabbis living in Medina before going back to Mecca to challenge the Prophet with a set of questions , one of which included information on Zhul Qarnain. This shows the rabbis of Medina were familiar with the legend of Zhul Qarnain, and they were also aware of the legend ( l will show in 4th paragraph ) . The biblical (chapters) books you have mentioned don’t connect Cyrus with Gog Magog, even though both figures are mentioned in the entire bible.
A quick search shows the syriac text, whether written in 614 CE or 629/630 CE, isn’t the only written material on the Alexander legend. l don’t understand why you mentioned the late discovery of the text. It was a lost text which was rediscovered in the 17 century.
The Alexander legend was written in many different languages, the the earliest known account of the so-called “Gates of Alexander” comes from the book, The Jewish War, written in around 75 AD by the Jewish historian Titus Flavius Josephus. We have a different version of the legend in Greek language ( language of byzantine empire ) , the Historia Alexandri Magni and it dates back to the the 3rd century. The oral circulations of the Alexander legend were widespread, the syriac text was written later on to give the Byzantine war of Hercules an apocalyptic twist. Historians have examined and affirmed the obsession of Middle east ( Byzantine, Arabia, Sassanid Persia ) with apocalyptic narrative in late antiquity. That’s one of the reasons why many hadiths related to the fitnah of end times ( including Gog Magog ) were fabricated.
For me, the Gog Magog story in a literary sense gives a characteristic description of a recurring phenomenon in human history, ie the destructive impact of invading hordes on civilization and the important role of a powerful righteous king (ruler ) in protecting innocent people from barbarians.
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Other material on Alexander don’t contain the details which are mentioned in Syriac text so they are irrelevant to Quran. Its also possible that syriac text got influenced by Quran. Why we cannot entertain that idea?
I mentioned that cause year is generally established based on carbon dating. Since carbon dating calibration curve has been revised so its also possible the date of year can be wrong.As i mentioned before Cyrus is most plausible which might not be truth. But from bible we get the idea that Cyrus was god fearing and helped Jews to build the Jerusalem. Why bible miss the building of wall can be due the reason it didnt concern jews. Old testament contains history related to Jews not whole world. Although it mentions about using iron etc for gate purposes in Isaiah
In the end, I think the way Quran describe the person as god fearing cannot be Alexander.
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There’s another problem with taking the story of Zhul Qarnain literally. You can identify the barrier described in surah Kahf with 3 different possible locations. Gates of Derbent, Darial Pass or the wall of Gorgan. Any other explanation doesn’t make sense as the events of surah kahf occurred around the Caucasus region .
However, we find problems with all of them when examined from the perspective of Quran. They are either proven to be very late constructions ( ranging from 3rd to 7th century ) or a “barrier” which allowed the passage of people from inside and out. The Darial pass is the oldest of the three but it was fortified around 151 BC and as l have indicated, it wasn’t a barrier.
God forbid, l am not trying to undermine your faith, you can believe in any explanation as long as it seems reasonable to you. But for me, it’s clear the Quran isn’t describing history. I read the story of Zhul Qarnain in a literary manner. I still believe the Quran is a revelation from God to his final Prophet and l have fortified my faith against any historical or archeological proof.
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I understand your point. You haven’t said anything which will undermine my faith. There can be many point of view about interpreting the Quranic verses. I am more inclined to Fikre farahi principles for understanding Quran.
Either you take story of dulqar nain literally or figuratively alexander or cyrus, this is not a matter of imaan.
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