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  • Why Hafs Recitation Appears In Ottoman Time?

    Posted by elliot gilly on July 4, 2023 at 7:29 am

    Why do hafs manuscripts appear late? according to shady Nasser they appear around the time of the ottomans.

    Ahsan replied 1 year, 4 months ago 2 Members · 3 Replies
  • 3 Replies
  • Why Hafs Recitation Appears In Ottoman Time?

    Ahsan updated 1 year, 4 months ago 2 Members · 3 Replies
  • Ahsan

    Moderator July 4, 2023 at 9:05 am

    Hafs is recitation not a manuscript. Since you didnt provide reference, its difficult to evaluate the claim.

    If you talk about manuscripts of Quran, western scholarship has a consensus that there are very few errors which van putten associate with scribal errors if compared to the oldest manuscripts.

    You can watch van putten’s nterviews at mythvision channel

    Or here in highlights

    https://youtu.be/BwZ7S2C4Mtw

    About recitation, a non arab person learn it by diacritics on the word. Since ottoman empire was mostly based on non arab population, they produced it in large numbers. He may be basing it on that (its just a conjucture as u didnt provide the reference to original wordings of Shady Naseer)

    Note: please provide proper reference to understand the context of cited work.

  • elliot gilly

    Member July 4, 2023 at 9:25 am

    Sorry I meant vocalised manuscripts with hafs reading only show up late beginning with the ottomans that is what van putten said to Dr shezad on twitter that the manuscript evidence tells us hafs was rare. I recently watched a video recently where shady said “the ottomans spread the qirat of hafs because it was easiest to learn”.

  • Ahsan

    Moderator July 5, 2023 at 12:37 am

    If the argument is “the ottomans spread the qirat of hafs because it was easiest to learn”. Then its a very lazy argument in my opinion.

    Since I m not aware of Shady’s research methodology and evidence of his claim, I cannot comment on it.If you can share his work, I can dive into it.

    Meanwhile, I will request you to ponder upon following points.

    1) If Ottomans were responsible for popularizing it, then it should have been common recitation in their area of influence and outside of their region of influence, we should find different recitation being practiced by masses. However, we observed that warsh recitation is still common in Northern Africa where ottomans were in-charge. Moreover, South Asia and Far East Asia has hafs recitation despite no influence of Ottomans.

    2) Persians and Ottomans had been rivals for centuries, if the claim was true, then Persians would have adopted a variant reading other than Hafs. Similarly, Salafi movement was also against Ottomans therefore as part of their resistance they would have adopted other recitation as other recitations are equallu valid for them.

    3) Vocalized manuscripts were meant for non-Arabs. It started with Kufic script. Hence, One should look for earlier Kufic manuscripts and carbon date them to get conclusive idea about the popular recitations of earlier time.

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