Asalamualaikum Mr. Umer Qureshi,

I was hoping I could ask a few questions on this discussion once more.

1.) Shouldn’t madhi always be distinguishable from mani because of the reason that it is released in noticeably lesser quantity than mani?

2.) You said that if one has doubt, they can opt for the option that requires more cleaning. Does this mean if they are absolutely unsure then they should go down that route? In other words, if the person is even slightly inclined to believe that they have encountered one or the other substance, can they go with that?

3.) Is madhi emitted during sleep?

JazakAllah

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi.

I want to clarify this point that you made: “In case one sees moisture after he wakes up but is not sure whether it’s Mani or Madhi, it is better for him to perform Ghusal before Salah.”

This is why I was asking that shouldn’t madhi always be distinguishable from mani because of the reason that it is released in noticeably lesser quantity than mani? For example, it’s possible that this madhi was present on a person’s clothes prior to sleeping and they did not notice.

As far as I’m aware, mani isn’t discharged as a small streak, but has a considerable presence.

Will Madhi always be excreted in response to sexual thoughts/foreplay or only in certain cases? Is it safe to assume that there hasn’t been any release of this fluid if there isn’t any physical evidence?

Asalamoalaikum Mr. Umer Qureshi,

I’m kind of confused about madhi still. Is this fluid easily distinguishable from water and ejaculation fluid (i.e. semen)? And is it something that will certainly leave a stain? Also, will it be released every single time that a person has sexual thoughts or indulges in foreplay?

I don’t know if I’m having delusions or not, mistaking water for madhi. I have trouble remembering things in the short term, so I can’t figure out if the fluid got there because of me or not, such as during washing or through water drops from my washed hand. I’m not sure if any of the wudu/ghusl necessitating fluids that dirty the clothes are indistinguishable from water, if you can please help me out.

JazakAllah

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi. So, is it only ejaculation fluid (which is thick and white) and indulging in copulation that requires men to have to ghusl? Is this correct? And what if someone believes they have climaxed but do not see the release of ejaculation fluid, whether asleep or awake?

JazakAllah! So just to clarify, if one is awake and climaxes (and not while engaging in copulation), they are required to do ghusl even though they know with certainty that ejaculation fluid has not been released?

Okay, JazakAllah! Thanks for your help Mr. Umer Qureshi, this all definitely makes a lot more sense to me now!

I was also wondering if these dry marks could be rather small? And what if someone is unsure? Although j can’t really think of other things that will leave dry marks.

JazakAllah and does a person need to wash this off before praying? I really don’t know how that would be done because to properly wash wouldn’t the entire trouser need to be soaked? So does that only leave the option of changing?

So I just need to take a handful of water and pour it over the area? But isn’t the impurity technically still there unless there is water dripping out of the trouser? Or water is squeezed out? Or am I overcomplicating things? I’m still having a really hard time understand when an impurity is considered to be clean.

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi! This definitely helps. I just want to take some time to think about what you wrote here, as well as on the forum regarding the nullifiers of prayer. I just want to organize my thoughts before asking for any clarifications.

Asalamualaikum Mr. Umer Qureshi,

I have a few questions about cleaning up after the release of madhi. Apologies if the questions are a bit explicit.

1.) If one notices madhi on their clothing and now must wash their private part, is it only the tip of the private part that has to be cleaned? In other words, the exact area from where madhi was excreted. And so, one would wash themselves the same way they would wash themselves after urinating?

2.) I know you said we should be certain about the spread of impurity, etc. but since the private part will change positions as one walks, sits, etc, isn’t it quite probable that the impurity might come into contact with more of the body than just the tip of the private part? Like the inner thigh, etc. Or is this considered microscopic, and therefore creates too much hardship?

3.) This question is for when madhi has been emitted, but before the private part has been washed. If the private part comes into contact with something (e.g. shirt), does the madhi spread? Or, again, I need to be able to see the impurity spreading, otherwise this is too microscopic.

I tried applying the principles about certainty and microscopics that we discussed into this scenario and have worked it out. But I just want to confirm with your answers.

JazakAllah

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi. And for point number 3), even if the tip of private part (after it has emitted madhi but before it has been washed) comes into contact with water or something wet, it’s only if the water changes in nature (like color) that it would regarded to be impure? Otherwise it’s pure with only microscopic and negligible impurity?

And we have always been defining microscopic/negligible impurity as something which cannot be detected/observed, whether by color, smell, etc.? And if one is unsure about the detectability, then there is uncertainty so it should still be ignored?

Are these three points all correct?

JazakAllah

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi,

And logically, all of these points hold true in the case that one is certain of a urine drop in their undergarment/trousers after having used the bathroom?

JazakAllah

I am in confusion on this whole matter. So here I am giving the points which I understood. Please let me know whether I am right or wrong.

1)Madhy[ A fluid which is usually secreated as a result of sexual excitement both by male(pre- seminal prostatic fluid discharge) and female(sexual vaginal discharge]. It requires washing the private part and wudu before salah .

2) Mani ( fluid emitted at the point of climax). It requires ghusl before salah.

3). If madhy or mani is being discharged by someone while sleeping then there are some conditions.

A) If he/she is certain about mani then ghusl is obligatory.

B).If he/she is certain about madhy then one must wash the private parts and requires wudu before salah.

C) If he/she is in doubt then ghusl should be performed to avoid any risk.

D) If someone remembers the dream but find no evidence on cloth or on private parts then nothing is necessary.

4). If madhy/mani is found on cloth then it is recommended to wash the affected areas but it is not obligatory. Maintaing cleaningness is obligatory .One can maintain different forms of cleaningess . (Example :- using tissue paper or anything for cleaning the affected areas on cloth.)

This was my only confusion.. I mean I was not sure wheather or not I understood this correctly😅. Thank you so much🙏🏻.

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi,

This definitely helps a lot and makes the situation more endurable. I would just like to ask a few more questions, if that is okay. I think a couple might have been missed from above.

1.) Isn’t it the case that the madhi would have actually existed on the garment beyond the dry, white stain that is left behind after a little while? So, how would one know how much madhi was originally emitted because the transparent bit would have dried out by then. Or are we only required to clean what we can clearly see?

2.) If – while one removes their undergarments – they see that a part of their body other than the tip of the private part was in contact with the madhi on their undergarments, do they have to check/investigate that part of the body to see if impurity spread there? Or can they just assume that this area is clean, unless they notice – in the natural course of events – that impurity spread there?

3.) I know you said that human experience tell us wetness after sleep indicates mani; however, if one sees one or more clearly dried out white stains of smaller quantity after waking up, then there’s no problem in believing it to be madhi, correct? Because mani is typically emitted in far greater quantity and is a lot more wet.

4.) Regarding performing ghusl in a thorough manner, I feel that if one has water reach all of their body parts, then they are meeting the condition of washing themselves ‘thoroughly’. That is, even if they are not rubbing their body parts or using high pressure water. Likewise, I feel that one standing below the shower for a reasonable amount of time, or moving around the bathtub so that water hits them from different angles would also be considered one way of washing oneself ‘thoroughly’. So, are these acceptable definitions of performing ghusl thoroughly?

5.) One time I asked you if merely standing under the shower head during ghusl is sufficient for one’s feet to be considered washed. And you said that if one feels water is reaching that area properly, then it is fine. So just to be clear, water reaching there properly means that the entirety of the feet, and particularly the soles of the feet, are getting wet. Is that correct?

JazakAllah for the help!

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi,

There are just a few points here that I’m hoping to get clarified.

1. a) For point 2), this means that it’s a case of noticing and not investigating, correct? I just want to make sure. This is for this question: If – while one removes their undergarments – they see that a part of their body other than the tip of the private part was in contact with the madhi on their undergarments, do they have to check/investigate that part of the body to see if impurity spread there . . .

1. b) Along the same logic, if the tip of the private part comes into contact with something after emitting madhi but before being washed, this means we don’t have to investigate if there is impurity on the object. But if we happen to notice the spread of impurity, then we clean it? Correct? This is because we don’t originally know if the impurity on the tip of the private part was in such a state that it could even spread onto an object (with which it comes into contact) in the first place – most probably it has already dried out.

2) For point 3), it’s not always possible to confirm or remember that a wet dream occurred. However, purely on the basis of one’s experience, can they not just trust their assessment on whether they’re looking at mani or madhi based upon the quantity and the consistency of the impurity found on their undergarment? Because I don’t feel that they will suddenly begin emitting mani in the quantity and appearance of madhi without reason.

3) For point 4), I understand that rubbing the body adds to the thoroughness of Ghusl. But if one has water reach all parts of their body as a minimum, would you consider this to still meet the requirement of thorough washing?

JazakAllah!

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi,

Sorry, I don’t mean to probe too much, but for 3), would you consider such a person’s ghusl to be valid and thorough who does not rub but only has water reach all parts of their body?

I read Dr. Irfan Shahzad’s post here (Discussion 59700), which is why I assumed that rubbing is not a condition for ghusl to be valid.

JazakAllah

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi,

So as long as I honestly consider it to be thorough, I don’t need to worry.

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi,

I want to make sure that I’ve understood all of your points properly through the next few questions, if you don’t mind.

1.a) In all cases of discovering madhi on one’s undergarments, an individual is only required to wash the tip of their private area EXCEPT if they notice or feel the presence of madhi on another part of their body, in which case this part should be washed too. However, if there is even a little of doubt as to whether what they notice or feel on this other part of their body is madhi, then this should be ignored and only the tip of the private part should be washed.

1.b) If one is absolutely certain of feeling madhi on another part of their body than the tip of their private area, they should use their best judgement in ascertaining what this part of their body is/was and simply wash that part normally. Especially in the case that that part later becomes dry and the madhi is no longer something that can be felt. And then the individual should not pay attention to any doubts that they have washed off the madhi on this part of the body. Correct?

1.c) There shouldn’t ever be a need to take a shower after the emission of madhi. Sitting at the toilet and washing oneself is always sufficient. Is this correct too?

JazakAllah!

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi!

1. a) There was a thought that came to mind. Let’s say that someone needs to use the washroom and performs istinja with water. And they notice madhi on their undergarment; however, they are unable to clean their undergarment right away due to circumstance. In this case, by wearing their undergarment once again while their private area is wet, but the madhi still remains on the undergarment, is there any concern that the madhi on the undergarment would have transferred to the body? Or again, if we notice with certainty that detectable madhi is on us, then we have to worry? Otherwise, we can assume that there was either no transfer or microscopic/undetectable transfer of madhi? 1.b) And does anything change if the madhi on the undergarment later appears to be in lesser quantity than before, thereby implying that water was in contact with the madhi on the undergarment?

2.) When it comes to suspicions of having emitted madhi, does one have to check at every little doubt (for example, every time one encounters a sexual thought)? Or can one do things normally and only check when there is considerable or strong doubt that madhi was emitted?

3.) Are all the points that we discussed above (including the ones here) applicable to urine drops?

JazakAllah!

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi! All of these points make a lot of sense.

Sorry Mr. Umer Qureshi,

Just one more point I was hoping you could clarify. So, I asked you what one should do when they are uncertain if what they see on their undergarments is impurity (madhi/mani) or something else (e.g., dandruff), etc. You replied:

“4). One can make a decision on the basis of their best judgement, but that best judgement should not be based on mere doubts and suspicioins. Certainty plays a significant role in making best judgement.”

So, in this case, is it always enough just to take a look at the marks on the undergarment? Or is any kind of further investigation needed to help make a determination, such as feeling the undergarment, etc.? Although what I understand from what you’re saying, one should be almost certain that what they see is madhi or mani, in which case I suppose these kinds of measures should not be necessary?

1.) And the decision should be based off of certainty or almost near certainty as to whether impurity is present on the undergarment?

2.) Is there any harm in wearing clothes where the marks may be harder to see than other clothes? Or this is going into too much detail and doing things normally is fine?

JazakAllah!

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi!

But for 1), I assumed that it’s not a case of absolute certainty because earlier you said: “One can make a decision on the basis of their best judgement, but that best judgement should not be based on mere doubts and suspicioins. Certainty plays a significant role in making best judgement.” Or should I just stick to absolute certainty like you just said?

JazakAllah

Can I set my standard of best judgement as acting on absolute certainty alone? And this is only for the reason that it is easy?

JazakAllah!

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi,

What about an ordinary person who does not have doubts and suspicions with regards to bodily cleanliness? Since they too would be only held accountable for staying in impurity of which they are certain, they also have the option of acting on absolute certainty alone correct? In this case in terms of whether there is impurity on their undergarment or not. Without any repercussions?

JazakAllah!

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi,

A couple other questions came to mind.

1.) If the stain of madhi on one’s undergarments come into contact with something else, such as one’s pants, do they have to investigate if there has been any transference of impurity? Or is this again a matter of noticing something in the natural course of events?

2.) If one performs istinja and subsequently wears undergarments with a stain of madhi once again due to not being able to clean or remove the undergarment right away, will they have to clean their private part again or is it considered to be clean at this point in spite of the fact that they wore the madhi-stained undergarment after istinja?

JazakAllah!

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi,

For 1), of course we would only have to clean or approximate the spot if it’s detectable impurity, right? And I was just wondering if let’s say someone is removing their pants and undergarments, and in the process the pant touches the stain of madhi on the undergarments. In this case, is it an obligation to check the pants for transference of impurity? Or because it is unknown whether it is even dry or wet in the first place, coupled with the fact that something of such small quantity will not typically spread in a detectable quantity onto an object in the first place, this means that checking is not necessary?

For 2), logically, it makes sense to me that one should clean again. But is it something that is strictly obligatory? And do we stick to normally washing the private part as we would after urinating since any madhi would typically not dirty one’s body beyond this level? Just generally speaking. So, this is a safe and non-burdensome approach that will remove the impurity in the vast majority of cases except for rare instances, if ever.

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi,

Sorry, there are still a few questions remaining in my mind, I hope you don’t mind.

1. a) In response to me asking whether there is an obligation to check once pants, if they see madhi on their undergarments come into contact with their pants (or any other clothes or object), you replied: “t is quite possible that may may reach this conclusion to not check, because of uncertainty or becuase it was dry to begin with or because of minute quantity. All these factors can become a reason to not check.”

So, can someone apply this idea in a more general sense? I know that we discussed earlier that one should check for the spread of detectable impurity on an object if they see that impurity directly came into contact with it. However, if any of these factors that you listed comes into play, or because someone’s instinct informs them that impurity has likely not spread onto the object, can they refrain from investigating the spread of impurity onto that object altogether? So, the person would be acting normally. For example, I feel as though there are some impure stains, which, even if wet, one will instinctively be able to tell will not spread onto an object at a detectable level, even if there is direct contact between the stain and the object.

1. b) And so on the topic of madhi on one’s undergarments coming into contact with their clothes or another object, can one always leave it up to noticing the spread of detectable impurity onto these objects/clothes in the natural course of events? And refrain from investigating the matter? Part of this has to do with hardship, since it may not be uncommon for the stain of madhi on one’s undergarment to come into contact with clean parts of their undergarment as they remove the undergarment.

2) Also, Mr. Umer Qureshi, you said that one should ignore doubts when unsure if what they see on their undergarment is impurity or not. In this case, is it enough to just look at undergarment, or is the person also expected to take other measures to establish certainty on the presence of impurity? For example, feeling for whatever is creating doubt about being impurity.

3) To my question on when one should check their undergarments regarding emission of madhi, you replied: “Usually a person’s own experience is a good guide in this regard, as its sensitivity can vary from individual to individual. Your experience can tell you well that how much time of such thoughts or with what intensity usually result in emission.” Can one apply the same points with regards emission of other impurity. For example, using one’s experience with regards to when they have emitted mani, and only checking their undergarments under these circumstances. Same thing with regards to emission of urine. In the case of mani, they would be using their experience to judge whether what they feel after waking up is very probably mani, or sweat, for example. That way one can ignore every little doubt and sensation associated with emission of impurity, which would make life easier?

4) In one of the answers, you said that one does not investigate if madhi has penetrated to the exterior of their undergarment and therefore come into contact with their pants/trousers. It is a matter of noticing in the natural course of events. In the case of mani, it only seems logical and obvious that the impurity will spread outside the undergarment. But with regards to whether it spread outside the pants/trousers, can one apply the same idea that you discussed before and leave it to one noticing this in the natural course of events? And so, one does not have investigate whether the mani has penetrated outside their pants/trousers, but it’s just a matter of noticing it?

JazakAllah Mr. Umer Qureshi,

For 2), in this case, is it enough for a person to just take a glance of their undergarments? Or also feeling for any marks or stains is necessary as a part of ‘further investigation’?

For 4, when you see outside of pants/trouser, we mean in terms of whether there is a stain present on the outside of the trouser/pants itself, correct?

Yes, Dr. Irfan Shahzad,

I know you are right. But the problem is, if my thoughts are unresolved then I am very much unclear on how to deal with these situations. I then proceed to shower constantly, and change my clothes several times in a day. It’s way too difficult to live like this. When I ask these questions, I hope that someone can show me I have misunderstood the demands of the religion so that life can become easier for me. Already in these last several months, asking questions on these topics has really helped me live a normal life. But I am still very confused on how to deal with madhi, since it’s very difficult to control its emission. I was hoping there are some principles I can follow, because many of the points that I have listed above are very confusing for me.

But again, I don’t mean to disregard your advice to ignore the doubts. It’s just that in some cases I haven’t found that ignoring my doubts has helped me.

I’m still confused about many of the points that I’ve listed above.

JazakAllah Dr. Irfan Shahzad,

Okay, that makes sense. I’m just scared I will make a mistake.

Is it okay if I continue to try to remove madhi but make life easy for myself by avoiding things like showers and changing clothes all the time?

Sorry for all the questions.

We should fear Allah but at the same time we should know that Allah is loving too.

The principle is to maintain cleaningness, and now it’s up us how we maintain it.

Different people have different sense of purity.

If one feels that one can achieve purity just by cleaning the affected area with tissue paper, then this is also fine cause according to him he is maintaining cleaningness.

The Same goes for washing and changing the clothes. It’s totally up to the individual what he/she feels is right.

If you find it difficult to change clothes all the time, you can choose to clean only the affected area.

We know that Allah is the most loving. We should do as much as we can , but that doesn’t mean we start Overthinking. Overthinking can destroy our present life, I have faced it too. We should do what we can and move forward in life with positivity otherwise our future will be in danger and instead of doing good deeds we will get stuck in our head in never ending thoughts.

JazakAllah for the advice, Zubair Bhai. I really appreciate it. You are absolutely right – I need to stop overthinking and trust that Allah SWT is the most loving. I will try to incorporate your advice into my life.

JazakAllah, Dr. Irfan Shahzad.

Thank you sir🙏🏻.