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Forums Forums Islam and Family Grounds For Prohibition Of Zina

  • Grounds For Prohibition Of Zina

    Umer updated 3 years, 7 months ago 3 Members · 19 Replies
  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor July 25, 2020 at 12:23 am
    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 12:24 am

      We can start from brother Shameer’s comments on the last thread- copy pasted

      A child coming into the world without marriage, is a problem only because of our society, which doesn’t accept such children, without any fault of those children. Many children are born to the parents who don’t love each other, but are together only because divorce is a taboo in society.

      I think unless you cheat someone, there is no inherent immorality in itself to have sex outside marriage. It is impractical, but not immoral.

      Anyway, this discussion may be going into marriage/sex/societal acceptance, which we can discuss in a separate thread, but the basic point is .. there are these acts which the people who commit them, don’t find immoral, but they are considered sinful acts in Islam.. same with idol worship. In fact idol worship is a bigger sin than sex outside marriage, according to Islam.

      So, I tend to agree with your point Ahmad Shoaib bhai, that helping them in idol worship is a bigger problem than helping them in sex outside marriage.

  • Sameer Bhagwat

    Contributor July 25, 2020 at 12:29 am

    I think the societies which prohibit sex outside/before marriage, have a good reason to prohibit it. Their objective is to allow the family bonding and restrict sexual acts. However, there is nothing inherently immoral in sex outside marriage as long as cheating of trust is not involved.

    Interestingly, Islam allows men to have sex with 4 women (in a marital context) and unlimited sex with numerous slaves outside marital context.. so if there was something inherently sacrosanct about one-man-one-woman marital sexual relations, Islam is contradicting that notion.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 12:32 am

      The slavery matter is a bit different than you pose it according to my understsnding- for your viewing when possible: https://www.facebook.com/DrShehzadS/videos/665931080937266/?vh=e&extid=kCDC0qAAovhsf0HQ&d=n

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 12:34 am

      I think these are long videos.. can you please summarize your points in short about sex with slaves ?

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 12:36 am
    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 12:39 am

      Are you saying that Prophet or his companions didn’t have sex with their female slaves without marrying them ?

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 12:39 am

      This is for another thread- the Dr SS videos explains it also

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 12:46 am

      Well, a simple yes or no will help. Whatever be the reasons, sex with slaves is sex outside marriage. Now, if it were a universal moral construct, all societies would permit sex with slaves , but we know modern societies do not.

      My point here is not to discuss slavery.. but highlighting that sex with slaves itself is sex outside marriage.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 12:47 am

      They did not marry slaves. The permitted relations were a part of the scheme to eradicate slavery

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 12:56 am

      I am not asking for why sex with slaves is allowed.. that is a different topic. All I am saying is .. sex with slaves is sex outside marriage.

      So, if sex outside marriage were really inherently immoral, sex with slaves wouldn’t be allowed by the so-called creator of the universe and creator of the morality .

    • Umer

      Moderator July 25, 2020 at 5:27 am

      I request you to read Islam’s take on slavery first, a simple yes and no answers are not always fully representative of the whole picture and would do injustice to the issue at hand.

      Sexual relations with slaves are outside marriage and were prohibited as well. But a different approach was adopted to end this because it was a part of slavery, embedded deeply with it, and not a separate societal practice like marital relationships.These both issues are parallel in nature, both had different socioeconomic dynamics and hence both were dealt with separately.

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 8:14 am

      If sexual relations with slaves was prohibited, then it would not be “allowed” under special circumstances.

      Anyway, my point was that once you allow sex outside marriage, then can’t claim that sex outside marriage is absolutely inherently immoral.

  • Umer

    Moderator July 25, 2020 at 5:19 am

    Free sexual relationships are not inherently immoral, but Islam’s prohibition in this regard in the context of protecting institution of family is what makes this prohibition rational.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 7:05 am

      Could you show some verses from Quran bhai- because according to Dr SS zina and fawahish are part of basic morals.

    • Umer

      Moderator July 25, 2020 at 7:30 am

      Here Islam means since the beginning of conscious Humans, right from Adam and Eve, they were wed-locked right from the beginning and hence the initiation of institution of Family. But in the absence of rationale behind the need for institution of family, it’s only rational that free sexual relationship would’ve been the scheme of God.

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 8:15 am

      Adam and Eve started their family generations with the use of incest . So, that can’t be used as a basic moral construct.

    • Umer

      Moderator July 25, 2020 at 12:40 pm

      We don’t see it the way you presented this. Please refer to the video below from 1:37:20 to 1:44:09 and from 1:47:24 to 1:50:36

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhEG66tXw_8

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 8:24 am

      I think the background of this discussion came from another thread where temple and idol worship were being discussed. So Faisal bhai said that polytheists don’t consider idol worship as immoral but all of the humanity in general considers sex outside marriage as immoral and they know that they are wrong but still do it.

      My point was in reply to that.. saying that the people who engage in extra/pre-marital sex are not necessarily of the view that it is wrong.

      To discuss it in detail, Ahmad bhai started/reopened this thread.

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