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Fundamental Contradictions In Islam
After years of research into strict, scientific monotheism, I have found the “Middle Ground” occupied by the Al-Mawrid school to be logically untenable. The distinguish between Sunnah (perpetual practice) and Hadith (historical reports), yet you use the latter to justify the former while ignoring the massive logical contradictions involved.
1. Insulting the God
The story of the reduction of prayers from 50 to 5 (Bukhari 342) is an insult to the God.
It indicate god misjudged or get into pressure and influence of a human being.
Plus 50 prayers a day is impossible for humans_ It means prayer after every 28 minutes
How’s you going to follow Islamic principles? How you going to take care of your parents and household?
How are you going to do job ? Sleep?
Human societies can’t function like this_ and I believe God is “all knowing”_ and He can’t make this mistake
2. Prophet Moses
The Quran is explicit: the dead cannot hear or act in the world of the living (27:80, 35:22).
How prophet Moses advising prophet Muhammad?_ he is dead!
Plus no one can negotiate, put pressure or use influence on God _ otherwise he cannot be god
3. The Source of 5 prayers
If the only source for the number 5 is a narrative that is logically flawed and textually contradictory to the Quran’s focus on 3 named periods, why is the 5-prayer count treated as “Inviolable Sunnah” while the story that explains its origin is often dismissed as “symbolic”?
4. The Blur between Sunnah and Hadith:
claim that Sunnah is “mass transmission,” but the details—the Raka’at counts, the specific recitations, the postures—are almost exclusively validated through Hadiths.
The Contradiction: If the Hadith is “history” and can be mistaken, why is the ritual built upon it treated as “Inviolable Religion”? You are building a “Perfect Sunnah” using “Imperfect Bricks.”
5: Zoroastrianism/Persian influence
The 5 Prayers (Gahs): Long before prophet Muhammad, Zoroastrians were required to pray five times a day (Havan, Rapithwin, Uzayirin, Aiwisruthrem, and Ushahin). The jump from the Quranic 3 to the Sunni 5 matches the Zoroastrian model perfectly.
The Bridge of Chinvat (The Sirat): The Hadith describes a bridge over Hell, thinner than a hair and sharper than a sword, which all must cross. This is a direct carbon copy of the Zoroastrian Chinvat Bridge. The Quran mentions no such physical bridge; it speaks only of a spiritual “Path.”
The Mi’raj Narrative (The Arda Viraf): The story of the Prophet’s journey through the heavens bears a striking resemblance to the Arda Viraf Namag, a Zoroastrian text where a priest travels through heaven and hell.
Ritual Purity (Wudu): Zoroastrianism is obsessed with physical “purity” and the fear of “pollution” by dogs, menstruating women, or dead bodies—themes that are absent in the Quran’s spiritual focus but dominate the Hadith.
Everything Sounds familiar isn’t it?
Conclusion
I’m sharing all of this because, honestly, Ghamidi Sahab’s school is the only one that actually help me a lot and bring me back to religion _ besides my own independent research. I value the way this center/school of thought prioritizes logic and ‘Aql’ over blind tradition, which is why I’m bringing these concerns here.
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5 Replies
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Fundamental Contradictions In Islam
updated 3 months ago
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Please go through material of Al mawrid and islamic resources again.
1- If you dont believe in hadith then it shouldn’t bother whether it says it 50 or 5 or any other number because you don’t believe it.
Just for clarification, the whole incident was a dream as evident from this hadith https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7517. In dream any thing can happen. For more details about Ghamidi sb understanding of the incident specifically episode 4. please see Discussion 1204732. If you think God has power and he can arrange a dead person to speak to living person in special circumstances. How it can be contradiction. The verse you referred is talking about something different in this regard. please read with context.
3. About timing of Prayers, one fundamentqal issue in understanding Quran is that every one thinks that it will tell everything from a to z. However, Quran rarely go into details when things are already common at that time. IT only corrects information which was wrongly practised at that time. When Quran talks about prayers, it donot intend to give details of number of prayers etc but giving specific detail according to context.
the time of prayers have been described for 5 times which are quite distinct. Here are the timings
– “Establish prayer at the two ends of the day and at the early part of the night…” (Hud 11:114) Ie fajar, maghrib and isha.– 17:78 verse talks about zuhur and fajar
– 2:238 talks about ASr prayer
4. I am sure most muslims never read hadith about number of rakahs but practice what has been taught by teachers or parents. You are trying to imply before people werent praying until hadith were written.
Secondly if hadith is history which can be mistaken then our own perception can be wrong too. Research on brain has already revealed to us how our mind play tricks.5. According to Quran, all religions were same but people differed and created differences. So it there are similarities in other religion, it shows common ground not influence. similar question was asked to Ghamidi sb. see for his response Discussion 40677 • Reply 42560
sunnah.com
Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)
Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic
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Thanks brother
My concern is Hadith was written down under abbasid caliphate, and we all know that There was a massive Persian influence during Abbasid caliphate
The Abbasid Revolution (750 CE) was largely fueled by Persian converts (mawali) who felt like second-class citizens under the Umayyads
Persian support was crucial for the Abbasid Revolution (747-750 CE) that did, leading to the Battle of the Zab in 750 CE where the Abbasids defeated the Umayyads, ending their rule and establishing the Abbasid Caliphate.
After that we saw Persian influence everywhere in the caliphate_ in governance and bureaucracy, culture, literature, tradition, you name it.
And The fact that Hadith was also written down in the same era_ and lot of zoroastrianism ideas that is present in the Hadith but not in Quran.
I would say also Jewish traditions is also present in the Hadith
And local tribal customs
And There is a lot of political influence and ego competition among scholars of Hadith _ some people might frame it as healthy disagreement and approve that Hadith is not accept blindly
But I see this differently_ the caliphate was never a stable place_ there’s a lot of political competitions, and eagles involve of scholars and groups
Conclusion
So we see massive political influence, Zoroastrianism/Persian influence, Jewish influence, and local customs influence
So Do i really need to include this “which we cannot verify and find contradictions after contradiction” _ with Quran to be Muslim?
Do I need to combine the two even though one is perfect and other is not?
But I be honest_ I’m still praying 5 times a day because I just can’t do it psychologically_ leaving the predictable structure is not easy
So I will like some help, advice and opinions
Thanks
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Another thing
I’ve gone through the material, but your explanation actually deepens my concerns about the logic being used here:
I find the logic here self-contradictory:
- Dream vs. Law: You state the Mi’raj was a ‘dream’ and ‘anything can happen in a dream.’ If the negotiation was a dream-event, why is the result of that dream (the number 5) treated as an immutable, physical law? Since when does Islamic Jurisprudence derive mandatory rituals from dreams that contradict the All-Knowing nature of God?
2. Internal Consistency
You used 17:78 and 11:114 to ‘find’ 5 prayers. But 17:78 refers to a duration (Duluk al-Shams to Ghasaq al-Layl), not a count. If I have to stitch together four different verses and use ‘brain-trick’ interpretations to reach the number 5, doesn’t that prove the Quran did not explicitly mandate it?
3.The ‘Ancestors’ Trap
Pointing out that people pray because ‘teachers and parents taught them’ is exactly what the Quran criticizes the Meccans for (2:170). If mass-practice is the proof, then the Jesus Christ is God,or son of God now?_ This is what 99% of Christian’s belief by mass-transmission
So obviously it’s Not reliable given the historical evidences of how human civilizations work
4. Brain Tricks vs. History:
You suggested my perception might be wrong because ‘minds play tricks.’ If we can’t trust human perception and logic, how can we trust the ‘perception’ of the narrators who wrote the Hadith 200 years after the fact? At least my logic is consistent with God’s perfection; the Hadith you cited requires God to ‘change His mind’ based on a dream.
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Even if I ignore Zoroastrianism/Persian and Jewish influence in Hadith literature
My question remains: If the Quran is ‘fully detailed,’ why must we rely on ‘Common Ground’ with other religions and ‘dreams’ to find the most basic pillar of Islam? It still feels like the ‘Imperfect Bricks’ are being used to justify a tradition that isn’t in the Book.
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Clarification
I didn’t took the position of only following Quran yet, I’m still praying 5 times and according to the traditional method, Because I want to be safe.
But The sources in which I am getting these practices are not acceptable in the conditions they are_ I be happy if I get more clarification and perspective on my issue.
And I deeply following ghamidi sir and Hassan Ilyas sir, and the opinion of this school of thought is most important for me because “I have nowhere to go or discuss this openly”
Main question: If I start to follow “Quran only physically”_ will I remain Muslim or not?
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Please see Ghamidi sb explanation of hadith of mairaj about 50 prayers, i find it quite reasonable. in episode 4
In no way, I am saying that the number was fixed based on dream. I maintain the position the number of prayers were always same since Hazrat Ibrahim.About prayers timing, i was just making point that you can see different timing for prayers based on context not because Quran is trying to give number of actual prayers.
You are right that masses can do mistake but the point was hadith is not the source of the namaz as per your claim.if there was error, you would have found differences in prayers timing or number of rakahs between different sects. However, you wont find it. moreover, if there is any difference, you can trace those difference arising at which point.
compilation of hadith was done even in time of Prophet too for details please see Ghamidi sb series on hadiths.
Yes correct, we can not be sure about things, what we can do is to reach what is more closer to truth.
Regarding your point about being Muslim, this can only be answered by God. If you are sincere and have reached conclusions with sincerity and are open to changer if adequate evidences, i m hopeful you will not be punished but rewarded for your search. But again only God has answer to it.
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Your questions are serious, and it is evident that you are raising them not out of emotion but with reason, honesty, and consciousness of God. Such questions are not a departure from faith; rather, they are a sign of sincerely seeking faith. Therefore, the first thing that must be stated clearly is that asking questions is not a crime or misguidance in itself.1. “Following only the Qur’an” and remaining MuslimIn Islam, the basic conditions of being Muslim are that a person:Believes in Allah as the One GodBelieves that Muhammad ﷺ is the Messenger of AllahBelieves the Qur’an to be the Book of AllahIf a person holds firmly to these foundations, then they remain Muslim, even if they are struggling with questions regarding religious sources and interpretation.However, it is also true that believing in the Messenger necessarily entails taking his practical guidance seriously, even if understanding it takes time.2. The distinction between Sunnah and Hadith in Ghamidi’s schoolAccording to Javed Ahmad Ghamidi:Sunnah is the practical religion given by the Prophet ﷺ and adopted by the Muslim community as a community (such as prayer, fasting, and Hajj).Hadith are historical reports that explain and describe the Sunnah; they are not religion in themselves.This means that the five daily prayers are established not through Hadith, but through the continuous, mass practice of the Muslim community. Hadith serve a clarifying role, not a foundational one.3. Mi‘raj, dreams, and “law”According to Ghamidi, the Mi‘raj was a true vision (ru’ya).Islamic law is not derived from dreams; rather, the law already existed as part of the living religious practice, and the dream provided spiritual meaning and confirmation, not legislation.In other words, the five daily prayers were not created by the dream; the dream symbolically explained an existing reality.4. What “fully detailed” means in the Qur’anWhen the Qur’an says it is “fully detailed,” it does not mean that it independently lists every ritual detail of worship.The Qur’an:Provides principlesCorrects deviationsReformulates existing religious practicesIt reestablishes known acts of worship within its first audience rather than introducing an entirely new ritual system from zero.5. Similarities with other religionsFrom the Ghamidi perspective, similarities do not indicate borrowing or influence, but rather a shared divine origin.Prayer, purification, accountability, and the afterlife have been part of revealed religion since the time of Adam.Therefore, resemblance to Zoroastrian or Jewish practices is not evidence of adoption, but of continuity.6. Human element and contradictions in HadithIt is valid to acknowledge that Hadith literature:Involves human transmissionReflects historical, political, and social contextsFor this reason, Ghamidi’s approach treats Hadith as:A secondary sourceSubject to evaluation by the Qur’an, reason, and established SunnahThis caution reflects intellectual integrity, not rejection of religion.7. Your present stateThe fact that you continue to pray five times a day:Reflects God-consciousnessShows attachment to religionIn Islam, choosing the safer path during uncertainty is an act of piety, not hypocrisy.Final answer to the main questionIf you:Believe the Qur’an is the Book of AllahBelieve Muhammad ﷺ is the Messenger of AllahIntend to live according to IslamThen passing through this intellectual phase does not remove you from Islam.The long-term resolution lies in:Understanding Sunnah as the living, communal practice of the UmmahStudying Hadith under the authority of the Qur’an and Sunnah, not above themThis is precisely the methodology of Javed Ahmad Ghamidi and the Al-Mawrid school.May Allah grant you not anxiety, but peace of heart through clarity and truth.
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