-
Why Is Shirk So Bad?
A brother raised a question- if God is so merciful then why does he not forgive shirk? What is so bad about it?
-
41 Replies
-
Why Is Shirk So Bad?
updated 4 years, 3 months ago
6 Members
·
41
Replies
-
-
Ghamidi sahab said in a video that no preaching is required for people to know shirk is wrong. So would a person growing up in a Hindu household be doomed as he should know shirk is wrong?
-
How can someone who actually believes in a creator of this universe can associate partners with the same creator he believes in?
________________
(Just a little clarification, the actual hell/eternal punishment is for ‘istakbaar’ i.e. a person who knowingly and willingly commits any act of transgression and insists on it after knowing that it’s false. Everything else will be judged according to the level of ‘ilm’ that person would have considering his/her circumstances and according to the level of proof i.e. itmam-e-hujjah that became evident to him/her).
-
Does it mean polytheists who commit shirk will not be punished for their polytheism unless they receive the proper proof that polytheism is indeed immoral ? When do we know that polytheism is indeed bad ?
-
Everyone will be judged accordingly unless there’s istakbaar.
-
So, when Allah says that he doesn’t forgive shirk does he mean he may forgive shirk if it is done by the polytheist without receiving the proof (itmam-e-hujjah) ?
Sorry if I am repeating the question, but for my understanding: shirk is forgivable under certain conditions if he does it without receiving the proof ?
-
yes, but proof has both intrinsic as well as extrinsic connotations.
___________________________________
(the actual hell/eternal punishment is for ‘istakbaar’ i.e. a person who knowingly and willingly commits any act of transgression and insists on it after knowing that it’s false. Everything else will be judged according to the level of ‘ilm’ that person would have considering his/her circumstances and according to the level of proof i.e. itmam-e-hujjah that became evident to him/her).
-
If a polytheist is committing shirk, is it his own responsibility to find the truth that shirk is immoral or is it Allah’s responsibility to deliver this message to him ? Or is it the responsibility of the Muslims near him to inform him that it is immoral to commit shirk ?
-
Everyone among us has this innate need to find the truth. It is a person’s responsibility to take the initiative always.
-
No, some people never feel this need to find out if they are doing wrong by idol worship.. if they are taught it to be the best method possible.
For example, how would 7th century people in America know that shirk is immoral because Prophet’s message didn’t even reach them ? Prophet was only delivering this message in Arabia, so how will the people of America be judged who possibly indulged in polytheism even after the death of Prophet ?
-
Doesn’t every person have that level of ‘ilm’ to realise that God cannot/does not have any partners? And lets assume for a while that he doesn’t. Then after the guidance provided by God himself time and time again, it still isn’t clear to him?
So to say that shirk will also be judged on the basis of istakbaar, is this correct?
-
No.. not every person has ilm that God EVEN exists, unless he is given this information by society/parents, let alone her having partners or not.
As I asked, who gave the information to 7th century American people ? Prophet only preached in Arabia (well one of the reasons I feel Muhammad was a local man, not messenger of God but it is anyway a separate topic), but American people weren’t aware of Qur’an at all ? So, why did Allah not bother to send his final message and completion of proof to American people ?
-
-
No preaching is required for people to know shirk is wrong ? Why ? Do we inherently know shirk is immoral ?
-
Rather than viewing shirk from the perspective of it being wrong/immoral/punishable, try changing the perspective for a while and think on these terms to get why Allah condemns it and says that it is an unforgivable matter.
I establish that there’s a God. (And for a while, im not speaking as a religious person but just anyone belonging to any faith, who believes in a God, so no bias here).
Now the God that I have come to believe in, it is only logical for me to call Him “God” because naturally I believe that He created me, He is looking after me, He listens to me whenever and from wherever I call Him, He guides me, He knows everything, He knows me better than I know myself, He is Self Sufficient, He is Capable of all things and He doesn’t need His creation, rather all of His creation is in need of Him, and etc. Therefore, as a result, I worship Him and Him only. And by worship, I mean, I only depend upon Him, ask Him and be His and His slave only.
If you think about it for a while, this is the most liberating thing that all of His creation possesses. To bow down before the one and TRUE Creator. Do you guys realise what this saves us from? Being slaves to just another ‘creation’. Who is capable just as i am, whose knowledge is as limited as mine, whose as in need of everything as i am and etc.
So, why God hates it so much for us to do “shirk” is because He doesn’t want a creation to bow down to just another creation. He doesn’t like it for us. Its the same as arguing, why does God get angry if we are not thankful to Him? Is he in need of it? But he answers this in this verse which you can also connect to the matter of shirk
-
اگر تم ناشکری کرو گے [17] تو اللہ کا کچھ نہیں بگاڑو گے، اِس لیے کہ اللہ تم سے بے نیاز ہے۔ ہاں، وہ اپنے بندوں کے لیے ناشکری کو پسند نہیں کرتا۔ اور اگر شکر گزار ہو گے تو اُس کو وہ تمھارے لیے پسند کرے [18] (Surah Zumar verse 7)
-
If God doesn’t like us to bow down to other entity, it doesn’t justify Her being so vindictive that She burns us in hellfire for eternity for this crime, while she forgives lesser crimes like rape and murder and allows them to enter Jannah.
So, a polytheist is a bigger criminal than a rapist.
-
Who said God forgives murder? If the murdered forgives the murderer then God will maybe forgive him. ( I think) Otherwise murder is a sin which leads to perpetual hell.
-
Allah MAY forgive any crime lesser than shirk.
-
-
The Qissa Adam o Iblees is so profound and look what it says. The wisdom behind making angels and jinn prostrate before Adam.
یہ سجدہ تعظیم کے لیے تھا اور اللہ تعالیٰ کے حکم سے ہوا، اِس لیے اِس میں شرک کا کوئی پہلو نہیں ہے۔ اللہ تعالیٰ نے فرشتوں کی اطاعت کا یہ امتحان جس وجہ سے لیا، وہ یہ تھی کہ اولاً، آدم پر واضح ہو جائے کہ اصلی سرفرازی نور یا نار سے پیدا ہونے میں نہیں ہے، بلکہ اللہ تعالیٰ کی اطاعت اور فرماں برداری میں ہے۔ لہٰذا اُسے بھی اپنی انانیت کو ایک طرف رکھ کر ہمیشہ حق کے سامنے سرتسلیم خم کر دینا چاہیے۔ ثانیاً، وہ یہ سمجھ لے کہ اُسے جب اللہ تعالیٰ نے یہ درجہ دیا ہے کہ فرشتوں نے اُس کو سجدہ کیا تو یہ بات کسی طرح اُس کے شایان شان نہیں ہے کہ وہ کسی برتر سے برتر مخلوق کو بھی خدا کا شریک سمجھ کر اُس کی پرستش کرے۔ بندگی اور پرستش اللہ تعالیٰ ہی کا حق وہ اگر اِس حق میں کسی کو شریک کرتا ہے تو صرف اللہ تعالیٰ ہی کی اہانت نہیں کرتا، بلکہ خود اپنی بھی اہانت کرتا ہے۔
-
Sorry, I don’t understand written Urdu.
-
Translation of the above
“The prostration was for reverence and was done by the command of Allah, so there is no aspect of shirk in it. The reason why Allah Almighty took this test of obedience to the angels was that, first of all, it should be clear to Adam that the real superiority is not in being born of light or fire, but in obedience and submission to Allah Almighty. Therefore, he should also put aside his selfishness and always submit to the truth. Secondly, he should understand that when Allah Almighty has given him the status that the angels prostrated before him, it is by no means worthy of him to consider any superior creature as a partner of God. Worship is the right of Allah Almighty. If he associates anyone with this right, he not only insults Allah Almighty, but also insults himself.”
-
Sorry I don’t understand how he insults himself
-
Because he has been given the status of a greater being doing sajda to him- so if he does sajda to it he is insulting this status i think
-
Because he has been given the status of a greater being doing sajda to Him WHICH was done to show that regardless of how superior you might be in terms of creation, you all are still Allah’s creation. The superior ones are as dependant, slaves, as much as we are to the MOST superior.
So, yes to what you said!
-
By being a slave to another “creation” as i mentioned earlier. A creation who is as needy and dependant on the same God, who has to bow down to His commands just like this creation has to. Both are dependant and in need of Him as eachother.
-
-
Allah reminds me of a tyrant ruler who is so full of himself that he can’t tolerate his subjects to respect anyone else but him.
He punishes people for not respecting him..
-
Exactly. He himself is human, his subjects being as human as himself.
Your answer is what you wrote brother!
-
Allah seems to display the same behavior.
-
-
If shirk is so bad, and Qur’an/Hadith/scholars call Christians as polytheists who associate partners with Allah, why does Qur’an allow marriage with Christian women ?
-
When we say Allah is merciful, why does Allah not show mercy to the souls who didn’t worship him but he is ready to forgive even the rapists and murderers ?
Why is his mercy not applicable for people who don’t accept him ? For any rational mind, how one can adjust to the fact that an entity punishes people for not worshiping him, and such a punishment is severe and eternal ?
I somehow can’t reconcile the concept of mercy with such a cruel punishment .. given the fact that rapists and murderers have a chance to be forgiven and enter heaven .. are we saying that in the eyes of Allah, a polytheist is a bigger criminal than rapists or murderers ?
-
What we need to understand is that the ultimate justice will be served on the day of judgement. In that regard, there remains a chance that someone committed a sin but he had a justifiable reason on the basis of which he might deserve forgiveness. However, knowingly associating partners with God can never have any justification. Oneness of God is inherent in our nature and there’s also plenty of evidence to it in the universe. On that ground shirk is an unforgivable sin.
-
Faisal bhai, I have to raise an objection to your point about : “In that regard, there remains a chance that someone committed a sin but he had a justifiable reason on the basis of which he might deserve forgiveness”
There can’t be a possible justifiable reason to commit rape on women, and/or murdering the innocents. Somehow these are forgiven by Allah.
I don’t seem to think of ANY reason where rape is justifiable.
-
What makes you conclude that Allah will forgive these sins if there’s no justifiable reason?
In such crimes people will be allowed to present their defense in front of Allah. All courts in the world do the same in cases of such crimes. But in case of shirk, there’s no such need.
-
What is the possible justifiable reason to rape a woman, which Allah will consider to forgive the rapist ? Or killer of babies ?
-
Can you come up with a list of all the possible reasons a worldly court might show any leniency for in such cases?
-
You might be aware of horrific Delhi gang rape case of 2013, it was as gruesome as it can get and I don’t even want to bring the details here.. it makes my blood boil thinking how can some men commit such a crime on a helpless girl. Another incident is killing of babies in Afghanistan by some terrorists in attacking the ward/hospital.
Now imagine criminals of both these horrific incidents stand in front of Allah, making their case .. and Allah somehow finds some justification and forgives them.. saying yes they had reasons to rape the girl and kill the babies.
Then comes a polytheist who committed even a bigger crime than these two people, he worshiped an idol.. no hearing… straight to hell..
-
My friend, religion is not determined on the basis of imagining things. The principle has been stated that the ultimate justice will be rendered on the day of judgement. The only reason that shirk cannot be forgiven is because there’s no room for any error.
-
I don’t see how you can justify the room of error in case of the two horrific incidents I mentioned above.
-
That’s perfectly fine. I’m not saying that the culprits of those horrific incidents will be forgiven. In any justice system, justice will only be rendered after the accused have been given a chance to plead their case, and that’s how we expect it to be rendered in God’s final court as well.
-
The point is.. those culprits may be forgiven by Allah if she wills.. but shirk will not be forgiven.. I can’t imagine under any situation where an idol worshiper is a BIGGER criminal than Delhi gangrapists or Afghanistan baby killers.
-
Sponsor Ask Ghamidi
The discussion "Why Is Shirk So Bad?" is closed to new replies.
