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  • Inter-sect Marriages

    Ahsan updated 2 years, 11 months ago 6 Members · 24 Replies
  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator July 20, 2020 at 12:38 pm

    The issue of inter-sect marriages is not much different than interfaith marriages. Please see the following.

    https://youtu.be/FbNkOMsLGqM

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator July 20, 2020 at 12:38 pm
  • Arslan Ahmed

    Member July 20, 2020 at 1:06 pm

    Faisal Bhai, in your scholastic opinion can you put it in black and white that is it permissible for a sunni woman to marry an Ismaili Man? is it violation of religion?

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator July 20, 2020 at 1:15 pm

    Sorry I cannot provide a scholarly opinion, but from what I have understood from Ghamidi sahab and my own reading of the Quran is that the absolute prohibition is only for nikah between a monotheistic person and one who has knowingly taken polytheism as religion. In presence of other differences in beliefs it’s not a good thing, but nikah will still be valid.

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor July 21, 2020 at 11:08 pm

      Does it mean that marriage with a non-polytheistic (someone who has not knowingly taken polytheism as a religion), but non-Muslim man is permitted for Muslim women ?

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator July 21, 2020 at 11:37 pm

    If a Muslim woman marries a non-Muslim man, it’s still not a good thing, however contrary to the common belief, it’s not as if she lives her entire life in sin. The nikah still remains valid.

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor July 22, 2020 at 12:04 am

      Doesn’t she commit a sin if she marries a non-muslim man ? What is Allah’s verdict on her action ?

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator July 22, 2020 at 9:09 am

      Sameer sahab I try my best to not judge who commits a sin and who doesn’t – I think that’s God’s domain. My job is to spend my time and effort in understanding God’s message to the best of my capability and convey that message to my brothers and sisters in humanity.

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor July 22, 2020 at 12:15 pm

      Yes, but I am not asking if any particular woman is a sinner or not. I am asking if this act is a sin or not.

  • Rafia Khawaja

    Member July 22, 2020 at 3:09 am

    Surah Baqra Ayat 221 says Muslim men and Muslim women should not marry polytheist women and men.

    Surah Al Maida verse 5 only mentions this permission for men to marry women of the Book.

    My contention is why do our ulema and scholars ignore Surah Al Baqra verse 221 which clearly mentions the instructions for both Muslim men and Muslim women and only mention Surah Al Maida verse 5? Does the Qur’an anywhere instructs that Muslim women cannot marry men of the book if they are not polytheist?

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor July 22, 2020 at 6:56 am

      There is no verse which I could find (I may be wrong due to incomplete knowledge) which prohibits Muslim women to marry non-Muslim men who are not mushriks .

      BTW, there is no verse in the Qur’an which prohibits muslim women to marry more than one men (polygamy). Does it mean that polygamy for women is also permitted ?

  • Rafia Khawaja

    Member July 23, 2020 at 4:01 pm

    Has anybody else seen any Surah or Ayat in the Qur’an which clearly forbids Muslim women from marrying men of the book as long as they are not mushrik.

    If I have missed out something please give me the Qur’an reference

    • Umer

      Moderator July 24, 2020 at 7:39 am

      Not to my knowledge. But what point are you trying to make if you could please clarify?

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor July 24, 2020 at 8:00 am

      Probably the point is.. if that is not prohibited by Allah, then it means it is permitted.

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator July 24, 2020 at 12:33 pm

      Sameer sahab the book of God is not a list of do’s and don’ts. As we begin to understand the depth of His message, we begin to see life with much more clarity.

      Allow me to sum up my understanding of His message in an extremely concise manner. The very reason and the purpose of the existence of this universe is for God to select a group of people whom He has decided to give an eternal life of joy and comfort to. He is testing all the people in this laboratory called the world to select such people. Those of us who prove ourselves in the aspect of purity (tazkiya) shall be rewarded that eternal life of joy. Purity is required in all spheres of our lives including thoughts and actions.

      Shirk is believing in partners of God without having any basis of that belief. If God had partners, it is Him who would have told us that – we have no way of reaching such knowledge. So in essence, shirk is nothing more than believing in falsehood. The right attitude is to give up such a belief because we have no evidence for it, in favor of what we do have clear evidence for.

      Same attitude is required from us in every manner. When a muslim woman (one who has consciously understood God’s message and lives her life by it), makes a decision to marry a non-muslim man who may or may not be a mushrik, we’ll remind her that what she’s doing is not correct. Right now she might be taken over by emotion, or making an irrational decision for some other reason, but this will cause her problems in the future. It’s not a matter of permissibility – it’s a matter of empathetically guiding someone to help her out in making a rational decision.

      Hope this helps.

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 12:53 am

      “When a muslim woman (one who has consciously understood God’s message and lives her life by it), makes a decision to marry a non-muslim man who may or may not be a mushrik, we’ll remind her that what she’s doing is not correct”

      But that’s the point Faisal bhai. On what basis are you saying that what she is doing is wrong ? If Allah really considered it wrong, he would have specified it exactly in Qur’an because Allah discussed the topic of marriage do-and-donts in the verse 2:221 properly. He specifically made it haraam for muslim women to marry polytheistic men and same for muslim men to marry polytheistic women. It is clear, that Allah did NOT consider Muslim women marrying the non-Muslim men in general (if they were not mushriks) as haraam . Else, Allah would be saying that any non-muslim man is haraam to marry in the verse 2:221 and not restrict it to mushrik men alone.

    • Umer

      Moderator July 25, 2020 at 4:26 am

      Declaration of something haram (hurmat) in explicit words is not always necessary and it is not the language of Quran as well, but at the same time prohibition is so obvious from the sentence that no rational mind can deny that. Take alcohol for example, no words of explicit prohibition are used, but at the same time, the words used are clear enough for any rational mind to assume that they mean absolute prohibition. Same is the case with Riba (interest) and Gambling. There’s no prohibition mentioned for eating and drinking a man’s own waste (as per this rationale, this should also be considered allowed from a religious standpoint). Therefore, it is not a fair approach to equate prohibition of one thing with another, everything needs to be considered separately as per language and genre of Quran.

      So when Quran allows men to marry women from people of the book as a temporary directive after domination of Muslims, it follows rationally that it is prohibited for Muslim women to marry men from people of the book, there’s no need to mention it separately. If you change the nature of directive for example, If Quran prohibited only women to marry people of the book, it would’ve rationally followed that the other instance is allowed.

      Quran’s sensitivity to polytheism should never be equated with anything else for that matter. Therefore it naturally follows that the nature and way of expressing those directives will always be different from the rest.

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 8:11 am

      “So when Quran allows men to marry women from people of the book as a temporary directive after domination of Muslims”.

      Where is this mentioned as temporary directive ? Does it mean now it is not allowed to marry Christian women ?

      The point is Allah prohibited marriage with Mushriks, but didn’t prohibit marriage with non-Mushriks, so you want to say that Allah is either unclear or didn’t want to prohibit that.

    • Umer

      Moderator July 25, 2020 at 8:33 am

      This directive is inherently a directive of prohibition as well. That’s what I tried to explain earlier.

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor July 25, 2020 at 8:37 am

      I think we need to read Qur’an verse with a clear mind and what it says. If Allah wanted to convey a wider message, She wouldn’t restrict it to say prohibition for Mushriks alone. Why didn’t She say that non-muslim men are not allowed for marriage in 2:221 ?

  • Rafia Khawaja

    Member July 24, 2020 at 11:42 am

    A female relative wanted to marry a non Muslim who is not a mushrik. That is why I’m asking

  • Rafia Khawaja

    Member July 25, 2020 at 9:21 am

    So according to you non Muslim women cannot be polytheist? God is very conscious of polytheism for both men and women. It is very clear in verse 2:221

    I’m not saying that Muslim women should marry non Muslim men I’m mentioning the clear instructions in the Qur’an.

    It is a matter of opinion. That is all

  • Umer

    Moderator January 5, 2021 at 1:13 am

    For detailed comments of Ghamidi Sahab on Intersect and Interfaith marriages, please refer to the following threads:

    Discussion 39978 • Reply 40038

    Discussion 39978 • Reply 40129

    Discussion 39978 • Reply 40427

  • Ahsan

    Moderator March 15, 2021 at 12:22 pm

    Ghamidi Sb point of view on intersect marriage in recent session

    Watch following video form 1:17:40 till end

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