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Ambiguity In The Quran On The Verse Talking About Embryology
My question is that how did you interpret the verse as Muhammad meant simultaneously bones and meat are formed , for over a thousand years, the most authoritative classical Quranic commentators (like Al-Tabari, Ibn Kathir, and Al-Qurtubi)—who were absolute masters of classical Arabic—interpreted this verse as a strict, step-by-step chronological sequence.
In classical Arabic grammar, while fa (ف) does denote a faster transition than thumma (ثُمَّ), its primary narrative function is still tartib (chronological sequence) and ta’qib (immediate succession).
- If I say in Arabic, “The king died, fa his son took the throne,” it means the son took the throne immediately after the king died, not at the exact same time.
- If the author of the Quran wanted to communicate “simultaneity” or “togetherness,” the Arabic language has incredibly precise tools for that, such as using the conjunction wa (وَ – “and”), or words like ma’an (مَعًا – “together”). Using fa still fundamentally tells the reader that B happens after A.
So for me this creates confusion and it very closely if not exactly matches the works of previous physicians like Galen and Aristotle , which creates a possibility that Muhammad could have bowered there knowledge and spoke it in a very poetic way .which isn’t even a amazing thing as people in Arabia had very good oral poetic skills at that time while being not able to read and write.
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Ambiguity In The Quran On The Verse Talking About Embryology
updated 3 days, 20 hours ago
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In Qur’an 23:14, the words thumma (ثُمَّ) and fa (فَ) are used side by side. If the author intended both particles to convey the same idea of sequence, there would have been no reason to alternate between them. Instead, thumma is deliberately replaced by fa, and then thumma is used again. This deliberate alternation strongly suggests that fa carries a meaning distinct from thumma.
The particle fa is also used to introduce details or elaborate on a preceding statement, often describing events that occur as part of the same process rather than as widely separated sequential stages. Consider the following examples:
أَرَأَيْتَ الَّذِي يُكَذِّبُ بِالدِّينِ ﴿١﴾ فَذَٰلِكَ الَّذِي يَدُعُّ الْيَتِيمَ
وَالْعَادِيَاتِ ضَبْحًا ﴿١﴾ فَالْمُورِيَاتِ قَدْحًا ﴿٢﴾ فَالْمُغِيرَاتِ صُبْحًا ﴿٣﴾ فَأَثَرْنَ بِهِ نَقْعًا ﴿٤﴾ فَوَسَطْنَ بِهِ جَمْعًا
In these passages, fa links actions that are closely connected, describing different aspects or successive details of the same event. It does not necessarily imply a significant temporal gap. Therefore, its use in 23:14 is precise and contextually appropriate.
The alternating use of thumma and fa is especially evident in the following passage:
وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا الْإِنسَانَ مِن سُلَالَةٍ مِّن طِينٍ ﴿١٢﴾ ثُمَّ جَعَلْنَاهُ نُطْفَةً فِي قَرَارٍ مَّكِينٍ ﴿١٣﴾ ثُمَّ خَلَقْنَا النُّطْفَةَ عَلَقَةً فَخَلَقْنَا الْعَلَقَةَ مُضْغَةً فَخَلَقْنَا الْمُضْغَةَ عِظَامًا فَكَسَوْنَا الْعِظَامَ لَحْمًا ثُمَّ أَنشَأْنَاهُ خَلْقًا آخَرَ ۚ فَتَبَارَكَ اللَّهُ أَحْسَنُ الْخَالِقِينَ
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Nobody argues that فَـ (fa-) implies a long temporal gap. Every linguist agrees that فَـ (fa-) means “immediate succession” (bi-la tarakhi).Removing the “temporal gap” doesn’t remove the chronological sequence. Even in a fast-moving process with zero delay, Step A must still happen before Step B.
You cited two Quranic examples to prove that فَـ (fa-) doesn’t mean strict sequence. Both examples actually prove the exact opposite,
“By the galloping horses… fa- striking sparks… fa- charging at dawn… fa- raising dust… fa- penetrating the midst.”
You claimed that this shows events occurring as part of “the same process.” Yes, but it is a fast, chronological narrative sequence!
Horses gallop
Hooves strike sparks on rocks (while galloping)
They launch the dawn ambush
The ambush kicks up a cloud of dust
They plunge into the center of the enemy lines.
This is a textbook example of Ta’qib (rapid sequential action). Step 1 causes or precedes Step 2, which leads to Step 3. You cannot plunge into the enemy line before or simultaneously with launching the charge. It is a rapid chain of events, not simultaneous actions.
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Example B: Surah Al-Ma’un (107:1–2)
“Have you seen the one who denies the Recompense? Fa- that is the one who drives away the orphan…”
This is a grammatical mistake by you. In Arabic syntax, the فَـ (fa-) here is Fa al-Jaza’ / Fa al-Rabitah (a connective fa that answers a condition or rhetorical question), NOT a conjunction of action verbs (Fa al-Atf).
Using a sentence-structure connector (“Have you seen X? Well, THAT is Y”) to explain a sequence of physical verbs (“We made X, then We clothed Y”) is an equivocation. You cannot apply the grammar of rhetorical conditional sentences to physical narrative verbs.
The “Elaboration / Process” Defense Still Fails.
Analogy: “I prepared breakfast: fa- I cracked the eggs, fa- I fried them, fa- I ate them.”
“Preparing breakfast” is one continuous process.
The steps happen back-to-back with no long gap.
However, the sequence is still absolute: You cannot eat the eggs before or while frying them.
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And you know the funny part , galen already wrote in his works ok embryology in 200AD, way before Muhammad .
Galen’s Four Stages of Fetal Development (De Semine I.9)
- The First Period (Seed/Semen):
The initial stage where the form of the semen prevails.
- The Second Period (Blood and Unshaped Flesh):
The substance is filled with blood and takes on a solid, fleshy consistency. The preliminary foundations of the three major organs (heart, liver, and brain) exist, but remain unarticulated and unshaped.
- The Third Period (Bones, Flesh, and Limb Outlines):
The three primary organs become clearly visible, and an outline or silhouette of the rest of the body forms. During this phase, nature causes flesh to grow on and around the cartilage/bones, and limbs begin to sprout like “twigs” or branches.
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The Fourth Period (Completion, Growth, and Movement):
This final period occurs after the bones and flesh/limbs have begun forming. In this stage:
All parts and limbs are fully differentiated and articulated.
The fetus continues to mature and grow inside the womb.
Galen notes that Hippocrates no longer calls the fetus merely an embryo at this point, but a child (paidion), as it moves and jerks as a fully formed animal.
In Ancient Medicine (Hippocrates/Galen): The ancient Greeks believed the transformation from seed to blood clot to initial tissue/bone outlines happened within the first 30 to 45 days (the famous “40-day” milestone commonly cited in ancient Greek, Talmudic, and early Arabic medical traditions).
In Modern Biology: The embryonic period (conception through organogenesis and initial body patterning) takes roughly 8 weeks (~56 days).
Stage 4 to Birth (Long Maturation)
In Ancient Medicine: Once the embryo became a fully articulated child (paidion), it entered Stage 4. Galen noted that the child simply resides in the womb to grow and strengthen for the remaining 7 months until delivery.
In Modern Biology: The fetal period spans from week 9 all the way to birth (week 40)—a period of about 32 weeks (~224 days) dedicated to tissue growth, functional development, and weight gain
And even if you say author used thumma at the end , then Galen also used it .
As the fetus matures inside the womb until birth .
It’s not a miracle it’s just a copy of Galen’s work written in a poetic way.
- The First Period (Seed/Semen):
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There are two points to consider.
First, one of the recognized functions of the Arabic conjunction *fa* is to elaborate upon or explain a *mujmal* (a concise or general statement). Therefore, there is no necessity to interpret *fa* as indicating a strict chronological order in every instance.
Second, fa is also used in Arabic to describe simultaneous or closely related events. Grammatically, this usage may still fall under the category of taʿqīb (succession). However, natural language does not operate according to the rigid principles of formal logic. Consequently, although *fa* may grammatically denote succession, in actual usage it does not always imply a strict temporal sequence. Rather, it can simply connect related actions or events without requiring that one be completed before the other begins.
In the verse under discussion, the change of Thumma to Fa is a clear indication that the meaning of thumman were not required for the places where Fa has been used.
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23:14 is a chain of transformations, not a heading with bullet points. Fa al-Tafseel occurs when a general concept is stated first, followed by its breakdown (e.g., “We gave him instructions: fa- we said do X, fa- do Y”). In Surah 23:14, the text is a chain of physical state changes (Nutfah to ‘Alaqah to Mudghah to ‘Izam to Lahm).
Even in elaboration, sequential steps retain their order. If you elaborate on “making dinner” by saying “I chopped the vegetables fa- cooked them fa- ate them,” it is an elaboration of a single process, but the sequence inside the elaboration remains 100% strict. You cannot eat the food before chopping it.
Even if you call it “elaboration,” describing Bones as Step 1 and Clothing with Flesh as Step 2 still demands that the framework exists before the clothing is applied.
“Grammatically, this usage may still fall under the category of taʿqīb (succession)… although fa may grammatically denote succession, in actual usage it does not always imply a strict temporal sequence.”
This is a massive concession. You are are openly admitting that by the strict rules of Classical Arabic grammar, fa denotes succession.
It makes the text unfalsifiable. If a divine text uses a specific grammatical particle (fa = succession), but defenders can say “well, natural language is squishy so we can ignore formal grammar whenever there’s a scientific conflict,” then the text can mean literally anything.
The verb Kasawna (“We clothed”) is not squishy. Even if you try to make fa flexible, the physical verb kasawna (clothing/draping) inherently requires a base structure to be present before the outer layer is draped over it.
As established earlier, removing Thumma (sequence WITH a long delay) gives you Fa (sequence WITHOUT a long delay).
Removing the long delay simply speeds up the pacing of the narrative; it does not convert a sequence into simultaneous actions.
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Grammar is scientific, not the language. Again, when you have to describe a simultaneous sequence or happening, you have to use Fa in Arabic. This is what it is. Language is squishy; it works that way. The author of these verses does not mean “after” or “then” at every stage; otherwise, He did not need to change the word from “Thumma” to “Fa”
ثُمَّ خَلَقْنَا النُّطْفَةَ عَلَقَةً فَخَلَقْنَا الْعَلَقَةَ مُضْغَةً فَخَلَقْنَا الْمُضْغَةَ عِظَامًا فَكَسَوْنَا الْعِظَامَ لَحْمًا ثُمَّ أَنشَأْنَاهُ خَلْقًا آخَرَ
Once the Nutfa transformed into Alaqah, the rest is an explanation of the developments with Fa, which you may take as a “comma” for the sake of understanding. When the process completes, then comes Thumma to tell that it is then transformed into another form.
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