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  • Quran 86:5-8 – Ribs And Backbone

     Ahsan Jalal updated 1 month, 2 weeks ago 5 Members · 20 Posts
  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor August 4, 2020 at 12:45 pm

    Is surah Tariq referring to the region between the backbone of the man and ribs of the woman during the act of physical relation? Because on la mawrid it says it is a euphemism for the male organ and I don’t see how that works

  • Umer

    Moderator August 4, 2020 at 3:14 pm

    If I got you right then probably these are the verses you’re talking about.

    فَلْيَنْظُرِ الْإِنْسَانُ مِمَّا خُلِقَ خُلِقَ مِنْ مَّآءٍ دَافِقٍ يَّخْرُجُ مِنْ م بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وِالتَّرَائِبِ إِنَّهُ عَلَى رَجْعِهِ لَقَادِرٌ (٥-٨)

    [If even this is not sufficient evidence,] then let man see from what he has been created. From a spurting fluid that comes out from between the bones of the back and the chest. [If His Lord can create him in such a manner, then] surely, He can create him again. (86:5-8)

  • Umer

    Moderator September 22, 2020 at 11:02 am

    This is a reference to creation of a human being from a mere semen that comes out of a male in the context of final resurrection of Qiyamah.

    I don’t see anything hinting towards physical relationship.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor September 22, 2020 at 11:05 am

      Yes but the spurting liquid does not come from between the bones of the back and the chest

    • Umer

      Moderator September 22, 2020 at 11:09 am

      This is not a statement of anatomy teaching us how exactly it is being produced and where is it excreted from. This is a statement, when you mention like this, every human being can understand which fluid is it talking about.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor September 22, 2020 at 11:10 am

      Sure it’s not a statement of anatomy but if it’s referring to where it comes from (the male organ) then it is completely wrong it seems.

      That’s the thing- we know the fluid being talked about is semen. And it does not come out from between the backbones and the chest. It comes from in between the legs

    • Umer

      Moderator September 22, 2020 at 11:18 am

      The act involves the whole activity of body and I think it has beautiful literary connotation covering the whole act of body and its ultimate result, which gives the same impression/feeling to a common man as stated in this verse.

  • Nadeem Minhas

    Member January 20, 2021 at 3:49 pm

    It may be translation issue too.

    Sahih International: Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs.

    Pickthall: That issued from between the loins and ribs.

    Yusuf Ali: Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:

    Shakir: Coming from between the back and the ribs.

    Muhammad Sarwar: which comes out of the loins and ribs.

    Mohsin Khan: Proceeding from between the back-bone and the ribs,

    Arberry: issuing between the loins and the breast-bones.

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor March 15, 2021 at 3:18 am

    I have asked another al mawrid scholar and he is saying that it refers to the male organ. I still don’t really understand how this can be referred to by saying between the ribs snd the backbone. Because that is where the pancreas and kidney lie. If something like ‘that comes out from between the legs’ was said then it would be abundantly clear. But in no way does it seem that it could be referring to the shameful male organ with the word in if ‘between the ribs and backbone’

  • Fahim Ahmed

    Member March 16, 2021 at 12:44 pm

    I asked a similar question in the Al-Mawrid Q&A platform. My specific inquiry was that whether it is possible that the verb يَّخْرُجُ is referring to الْإِنْسَانُ rather than مَّآءٍ دَافِقٍ , according to the rules of Arabic. In that case the expression مِنْ م بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وِالتَّرَائِبِ can be interpreted as referring to the womb, as it is the womb which is between backbone and ribs and man is seen to be coming out from it. Interestingly Imam al-Qurtubi mentions this in his tafseer as one of the possible meanings. The Al-Mawrid associate who answered my question said that he had consulted Ustadh Ghamidi regarding this and his opinion was that the verb يَّخْرُجُ is not appropriate for referring to الْإِنْسَانُ . Although I didn’t follow up after that, it would be interesting if somebody could further clarify why that is the case according to Arabic language.

    In surah al-Hajj there is a usage of a derivative of يَّخْرُجُ,

    يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ إِن كُنتُمْ فِى رَيْبٍۢ مِّنَ ٱلْبَعْثِ فَإِنَّا خَلَقْنَـٰكُم مِّن تُرَابٍۢ ثُمَّ مِن نُّطْفَةٍۢ ثُمَّ مِنْ عَلَقَةٍۢ ثُمَّ مِن مُّضْغَةٍۢ مُّخَلَّقَةٍۢ وَغَيْرِ مُخَلَّقَةٍۢ لِّنُبَيِّنَ لَكُمْ ۚ وَنُقِرُّ فِى ٱلْأَرْحَامِ مَا نَشَآءُ إِلَىٰٓ أَجَلٍۢ مُّسَمًّۭى ثُمَّ نُخْرِجُكُمْ طِفْلًۭا ثُمَّ لِتَبْلُغُوٓا۟ أَشُدَّكُمْ

    “O People, if you should be in doubt about the Resurrection, then [consider that] indeed, We created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a clinging clot, and then from a lump of flesh, formed and unformed – that We may show you. And We settle in the wombs whom We will for a specified term, then We bring you out as a child, and then [We develop you] that you may reach your [time of] maturity.” (Surah al-Hajj: 05)

    If we apply the principle of Qur’an explaining itself, can we conclude that (22:05) is an elaboration of what was mentioned in a succinct form in (86:5-8)? In that case we can argue that يَّخْرُجُ might be referring to الْإِنْسَانُ .

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor March 16, 2021 at 12:48 pm

      Because the verb before used for Insan is خلِق which is a passive verb (مبني بالمجهول ) so the verb should be passive again and be يُخرَجُ not يَخرُجُ as it is in the ayah. Also the water is being referred to for a reason which is in the next ayah إنه على رجعه لقادر- the whole process is being stated to draw man’s attention to how God’s creation is perfect and that he can bring him back if he wants to.

      The question is how would بين الصلب والترائب refer to the male organ? Should the words be بين رجلين? @Irfan76

    • Fahim Ahmed

      Member March 16, 2021 at 12:55 pm

      Got it. Thanks for the clarification. Here is another link which might help.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor March 16, 2021 at 1:00 pm

      يخرج الإنسان من بين الصلب والترائب

      This seems to be wrong for three reasons:

      God didn’t say it,

      The passive verb was not used as it was earlier

      The man is not ‘created’ from coming out from the ribs and backbone. He is already made and is coming out if we take the above meaning of the ayah.

      It seems that يخرج is clearly being used for ماء دافق so cannot refer to the ribs of the woman

  • Nadeem Minhas

    Member March 21, 2021 at 6:41 am

    Has anyone found a logical answer for this?

  • Nadeem Minhas

    Member March 21, 2021 at 7:33 am

    This article covers it the best.

    In summary the fluid is produced between the backbone and chest rib bones. Although technically true, but with ample ambiguity.

    As always, Quran leaves ambiguity in many verses, so it can be easy accepted by believers and equally easily rejected by the disbelievers.

    But who understands the holistic meaning, knows it is the truth.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor March 21, 2021 at 9:18 am

      It’s not talking about ماء مهين it’s talking about خروح ماء دافق. This can only refer to the exit point of the water from the male anatomy from what I’ve researched so far

  • Ahsan Jalal

    Moderator April 30, 2021 at 1:11 pm

    In recent Q&A Session with Ghamidi Sahab on Questions selected from ASK GHAMIDI Platform:

    For answer to your question, please refer to the video below from 25:27 to 26:10

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Original Post
0 of 0 posts June 2018