-
Quran Verse 4:34
This thread is not to criticise this verse about permission given to the man to beat his disobedient wife, but to understand if it is a requirement for husband to beat his disobedient wife as a 3rd step.
For example, if a wife disobeys and challenges her husband’s authority and husband doesn’t scold her, doesn’t avoid bed with her, and doesn’t beat her .. but decides to separate from her (divorces her) .. Is such a husband violating the clear direction given by Allah ?
In other words, if a husband doesn’t punish his disobedient wife (by employing these 3 steps one after the other, leading to finally beating her) , is he doing wrong ?
-
70 Replies
-
Quran Verse 4:34
updated 3 years, 8 months ago
6 Members
·
70
Replies
-
Ghamidi Sahab’s point of view to this question has already been answered in the first two articles of the following thread:
-
Umer bhai,
If the husband doesn’t use any of these 3 steps, and just divorces a disobedient wife, is it permitted ? Also, what happens if even after the 3rd step, the wife doesn’t obey the husband ?
-
I believe these are naseeha from Allah. They are one way you could stop a disobedient wife. One man may think of he hits her it would worsen the situation. In tribal cultures hitting her would put her in her place. In our society he may take her out on a dinner etc.
-
So, as a third step, he will take her out to dinner ? Is this what God meant in 4:34 ?
-
God has given an advice of how this situation could be tackled. Everyone will see if it will work for their current circumstance. Dinner may be the best option for some people
-
God gave the 3 step directive.. if God wanted husband to take his disobedient wife to dinner, he would have mentioned that. He wouldn’t advise to beat her. Anyway, are you saying that a husband can ignore these 3 steps and if he thinks dinner will help, he should take his disobedient wife to dinner as a 3rd step ? Why didn’t Allah mention that ?
-
Brother it is very simple and it was also mentioned in the other chat. These steps must be taken with wisdom and prudence. The objective is to preserve a house. The husband has been given a right to use his force in a reasonable matter to ensure the household’s protection. If he feels this force will result in it shattering then he should not use it.
God has given the general directive to preserve the household- now man will use his intellect and exercise whatever he thinks will lead to this whether it’s physical reprimanding or dinner
-
Are you saying man’s intellect will decide if Allah’s directive is helpful or not ? So, he can ignore Allah’s directive and Allah will not question him why you ignored my verse ?
-
We are given the purpose of the directive. It is to preserve the house. Then we are given one way (eg the directive mentioned) in which this purpose can be reached.
That doesn’t negate other ways can be consulted
-
Are you saying that what Allah mentioned in 4:34, the 3 clear steps, one can ignore them and use other methods to do it ? Then why did Allah specifically list these 3 steps in that order ? Suppose a man thinks that beating the disobedient wife is the best way to save family, and he directly jumps to 3rd step.. avoiding the first two step of counselling her and avoiding bed with her, will Allah not question him for avoiding the 2 steps before taking the 3rd step ? I hope you agree .. now you are saying that Allah will be fine if he avoids ALL 3 steps altogether and takes her out to dinner.
-
-
The dinner example is not correct. Before the last step is taken, all other avenues must have already been exhausted. The final step is the last resort, and if it doesn’t work then the only option that remains is divorce. Also, the final step is not necessary – a man can even divorce before resorting to it.
-
Bhai could you provide some reasoning because the verse doesn’t talk about it being a last resort
-
Please see Ghamidi sahab’s explanation of the ayah in Al-Bayan.
-
-
52. This is the answer to the question that if a woman instead of adopting a harmonious attitude with her husband resorts to a rebellious attitude and while living in the house of her husband refuses to acknowledge him as her husband, then can he punish her to reform her? The Qur’ān says that if the situation reaches this extent, the Almighty has given the husband three options:
First, he should urge his wife to mend her ways. The word used by the Qur’ān is وَعَظ which means that she can be admonished and also scolded to some extent in this regard.
Second, intimate marital relations with her should be suspended in order to communicate to her that if she does not mend her ways she might have to face severe repercussions.
Third, she should be punished physically. This punishment should obviously be similar to the one a teacher gives to a student or what a father gives to his children. The Prophet (sws) has used the words غَيْرَ مُبَرِّح (Abū Dā’ūd, Sunan, no. 1905) which refers to a punishment which does not leave a permanent mark.
It is evident from the style of the verse that a gradual sequence should be adopted in exercising these options. In other words, the second step after the first and the third after the second should only be adopted if the husband is convinced that there is no other option but to go on to the next step. These measures point to the utmost limit to which a husband can go regarding admonishing his wife. The Qur’ān says that if the wife mends her ways through these measures a husband should not look for revenge and vengeance. He is warned thus: إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرًا (indeed, God is exalted and mighty). The implication is that if the Lord of the heavens and the earth forgoes the arrogance of His creatures and forgives them if they repent, His creatures should also not misuse their authority over others.
53. If the husband is unable to check the nushūz of the wife even after adopting the measures mentioned earlier, then this means that it is no longer easy to keep this relationship intact. However, even at this instance, the Almighty does not want that a husband divorce his wife and thus get rid of her. Thus He has asked Muslims to adopt another measure: the relatives of the couple, their clan and tribe and other well wishers should come forward and use their influence to set right the situation.
54. These words subtly urge the couple to benefit from this scheme. If, instead of severing ties, they wish to create harmony among themselves they should keep in mind that the Almighty is benevolent. He will help them in redeeming the situation.
-
Yes, but nowhere any dinner advice is there.
-
The dinner could compliment urging in the first step
-
“First, he should urge his wife to mend her ways. The word used by the Qur’ān is وَعَظ which means that she can be admonished and also scolded to some extent in this regard.”
It is entirely different directive than taking her out to dinner.. we don’t take people out to dinner to scold them..
In any case, even if I accept that taking her out to dinner comes under the ambit of 1st step, it is only first step, and if it doesn’t work, then 2nd and 3rd step is needed.
In your earlier statement, I assumed that taking her out to dinner is a replacement of these 3 steps, now you are saying that it is part of the first step only.
-
Sorry I was unclear. The urging could include scolding ‘to some extent’.
-
OK.. my question still remains, if the husband doesn’t beat his disobedient wife as a 3rd step, is he doing wrong?
-
No- if she returns in the First or second step there is no need
Also please read the resources above- he can divorce without even doing this step.
These are measures to preserve the house
-
If she doesn’t obey him after the 2 steps, and if he still doesn’t beat her , isn’t he doing wrong?
-
Thank you, I might have misunderstood it earlier.
-
No problem- I was still learning and you have helped me anyway . Also I think my thoughts weren’t so clear
-
-
Allah has given directive so a home remains intact. The man is not obliged to do anything but give a divorce If he feels none of the above will work and the marriage is beyond saving..
-
How can the husband know without trying the 3 steps ? If he doesn’t know, he should try the 3 steps before divorcing the disobedient wife, right ? Who knows, may be the wife returns to obey him and he doesn’t have to divorce her, thus saving the family.
-
He will know by experience and if his wife usually responds to these things. It is through tajarba
-
But first time, the husband must try the 3 steps if he doesn’t know.
-
Bhai this the husband will know. If he thinks the marriage is fully ruined he can divorce
-
Can he divorce even without employing any of the 3 steps ? Ghamidi saab’s comment doesn’t seem to say this.
-
I think @faisalharoon can clarify further
-
I believe he can but he should try to preserve the household
-
What makes you think he can divorce without even employing any of the 3 steps ?
-
I don’t know of any directive prohibiting it. I’m pretty sure he cannot just do it and go away but had to provide for the wife and children or something like that but I’m not sure or we’ll researched here
-
There is clear directive in 4:34 about dealing with disobedient wives..
-
-
Sometime a couple are not compatible, they do not want to remain together, so they go straight for a divorce and do not go through the 3 steps.
-
That is fine, but that is not the domain of this verse… this verse is specifically about dealing with disobedient wives, not about incompatibility where mutual divorce is applicable.
-
-
If you are talking about a rebellious wife then the husband is advised the 3 steps not otherwise in a marriage which is incompatible
-
Yes, I am only talking in the context of 4:34, which is about disobedient wives.. and employing 3 steps to deal with her.
-
-
Yes
-
So, is my point correct that if a husband doesn’t beat his disobedient wife (after trying scolding her and avoiding bed with her), he is doing wrong?
-
For what reason?
-
What do you mean by “for what reason” ?
-
Why is he not implementing the third step?
-
May be because he doesn’t want to beat her.. or may be because he thinks beating wife is not a good thing. Is he doing wrong by not beating her ?
-
He should fully exhaust step 1 and 2- if he doesn’t want to deal with the wife then I’m not sure- maybe he should divorce
-
Yes, he fully exhausted step 1 and 2… he scolded her.. she didn’t obey him.. he avoided bed with her .. she didn’t obey him even after that.
Now Allah says that you should beat her..
But he due to his own morals, avoids this step .. is he doing wrong by ignoring Allah’s command to beat her ?
33:36 (I know the context of 33:36 is different, but ruling is general).
Sahih International: It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.
-
If he doesn’t want to do step 3 (btw beating is a reprimand like a teacher r or parent not) and the wife is still rebellious then he is not willing to preserve the household and would have to divorce
-
Divorce is the 4th step.. can he avoid Allah’s directive of the 3rd step of beating her if he doesn’t want to beat her ?
-
As brother Faisal explained above divorce can take place at any of the steps of the husband sees fit
-
Ghamidi saab’s comment which you quoted above says opposite : it tries to avoid divorce till all 3 steps are exhausted.. and even after that, do everything to avoid divorce.
53. If the husband is unable to check the nushūz of the wife even after adopting the measures mentioned earlier, then this means that it is no longer easy to keep this relationship intact. However, even at this instance, the Almighty does not want that a husband divorce his wife and thus get rid of her. Thus He has asked Muslims to adopt another measure: the relatives of the couple, their clan and tribe and other well wishers should come forward and use their influence to set right the situation.
-
That would be an ideal situation. If the man is tired of this rebellious wife and wants to do away then it is not the best thing but it is allowed
-
Please show me where it is allowed .. Ghamidi saab’s comment does NOT seem to say that. Even the verse doesn’t talk about divorce till the 3 steps are completed.
-
The verse doesn’t talk about divorce at all. These are all measures to prevent divorce. If the man thinks that divorce is the way he want to go then I don’t see any prohibition for it
-
So, why are you not answering the question in the context of this verse ? This verse Allah says to adopt 3 steps .. my question is clear… if he doesn’t beat her as a third step.. is it wrong ?
You brought divorce into it.. and this verse talks about divorce further.. after the 3 steps.. if the wife obeys after 3rd step, then seek no means against her.. and it continues in 4:35 to seek family members to avoid divorce.
-
He should try and take the steps and avoid divorce at all costs.
I think it would depend on his intention if he is doing wrong to not implement a certain step.
Eg if he is truly frustrated and doesn’t think it will ever work I don’t think he will be sinful
If he just is lazy then maybe he would be wrong
-
“Eg if he is truly frustrated and doesn’t think it will ever work I don’t think he will be sinful”
Where does Allah say that if you think it will not work, then please don’t use these steps ?
-
Because it is clear the purpose of these steps is to preserve a household
-
Let the purpose and method be known to Allah.. our job is to just inform what Allah said .. not assume his message and intention.
-
We interpret texts according to reason. If we didn’t keep the larger context in mind the word for beating could be taken in a way which would allow bad things
-
You can interpret the text accordingly, and can use your reason to understand what Allah said.. but please don’t insert your own suggestions which Allah didn’t mention. I find this approach strange. If Allah meant for the husband to ignore these steps, he would have specified the conditions clearly, under which he can ignore these steps .. I don’t think Allah meant to say to the husband “if you are frustrated then there is no need to use these 3 steps, and jump directly to divorce, it is fine” .
-
Nowhere in the verse does it make the steps a necessity
-
“Nowhere in the verse does it make the steps a necessity” ..
Sorry ? Where did Allah say that these steps are not necessary if you think they will not help ?
-
The larger context can lead us to believe this. I recommend you read the surrounding ayas and general concept of family in Islam.
God has neither said it is a necessity
-
-
My related question is:
Suppose, in Pakistan, the disobedient wife, on her husband employing the 3 steps, goes to court and files domestic violence case against her husband, will the courts punish the husband ? I think courts have no right to punish such a husband because he just followed Allah’s directive to avoid the divorce..
If he slapped his wife (without leaving permanent marks) , the wife doesn’t have any right to file domestic violence case and the courts should take into account, the rights of the husband to beat his wife, in order to bring her to obedience (and save the family).
-
This would be a complicated court issue and giving a generic ruling won’t be possible here
-
I made the case as simple as possible.. the husband employed all 3 steps to the best of his ability in understanding God’s message, and in the 3rd step, he slapped his wife (he was careful to slap her without leaving permanent marks)… the disobedient wife goes to court and files domestic violence case..
I don’t think the wife has any valid argument here, and should be scolded for wasting the time of court.
-
Like I said evidences would be presented to see if she was rebellious and if he was justified in exercising this right. If the wife thinks it was a wrongful abuse then these proceedings would occur.
-
Yes, the husband has shown and proven and the wife also doesn’t contest the point that she was disobedient .. but she claims that despite being disobedient, she should not have been slapped.. at least that part she is wrong .. and husband is right in punishing her/slapping her.
-
Well if she is admitting she was trying to crumble the household and that the husband was simply trying to stop her from doing it then on what grounds is she claiming he is wrong?
-
-
This question has been sufficiently answered in the following discussion
Sponsor Ask Ghamidi
The discussion "Quran Verse 4:34" is closed to new replies.
