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  • Mistakes In Learning And Repercussions And Huqooq Ul Ibaad

    Posted by Ahmad Shoaib on August 13, 2020 at 3:33 pm

    If someone believes that lying cheating or murdering is allowed due to some gross misunderstanding like we see today in isis- what is the verdict from Allah if anything for their crimes in the akhirah. Of course in the world we take their crime at face value but in the akhirah what will their decision be? Let’s also say that their fitrah was so perverted that it couldn’t stop them either.

    This nicely flows into how for me sometimes huqooq ul ibaad doesn’t make sense. Allah said he will forgive all sins according to his mercy – eg surah zumar. He did not differentiate. Even sahaba probably Lied or cheated or maybe even murdered or did bad actions drunkenly and were forgiven. How does it make sense that our judgement is deferred to a human being rather than to God. I have not been able to find any suggestion for this huqooq ul ibaad in the Quran. If Allah wants to forgive the murderer due to extenuating circumstances of brainwash and misunderstanding then that is his ultimate wisdom. He can also at the same time recompense the murdered.

    Have we been given any knowledge in this matter?

    @UmerQureshi @faisalharoon

    Faisal Haroon replied 2 years, 3 months ago 4 Members · 15 Replies
  • 15 Replies
  • Mistakes In Learning And Repercussions And Huqooq Ul Ibaad

  • Umer

    Moderator August 13, 2020 at 3:58 pm

    See if these comments help you understand the rationale behind divine justice & forgiveness, please refer to the video below from 1:44:20 to 1:48:22

  • Umer

    Moderator August 13, 2020 at 3:58 pm

    Kindly also refer to the video below from 54:36 to 56:08

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor August 13, 2020 at 4:09 pm

    But there are so many examples of when a person comes under such great misunderstanding not realising what he is doing. Adl means the person fully intended to do wrong. In this world we can’t judge intention so we give hard punishments- to the little extent we can judge we also lower or heighten the punishment. So why is it incorrect to say an isis member or any person (I don’t want to make it bias) who does wrong unknowingly in the court of God won’t be afforded this perfect justice?

    @UmerQureshi

    • Umer

      Moderator August 13, 2020 at 4:27 pm

      A murderer who realized his mistake in this world and asked continuous forgiveness from the Lord in this world and in the hereafter, if the person murdered forgives that murderer, logic dictates that it should open a room for forgiveness, it’s this room for forgiveness that Quran indicates to; this doesn’t necessarily means forgiveness.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 14, 2020 at 1:56 am

      Don’t the relatives and heirs forgive the murderer- isn’t that right given to them?

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator August 13, 2020 at 4:27 pm

    Of course God can forgive a murderer based on his extenuating circumstances. He can also recompense the murderer.

    The point to understand is that our accountability is not solely based on wrong and right. It is in fact based on whether or not our actions were sincerely in line with what we believed to be right.

    Under normal circumstances, when we are about to do something wrong, our inner voice tells us that it’s wrong. We have no reason to doubt it. Do we pay heed to that call and stop, or do we allow our fears, ego, arrogance, or some other feelings or emotions get in the way and commit the wrong anyway? That is the question.

    If someone is not of sound mind, then he won’t be held accountable for his actions. If someone is brainwashed, perhaps he allowed himself to be brainwashed due to ego, arrogance, etc. Such a person will definitely be questioned. Similarly if someone believed in a lie, the accountability could be based on whether or not he had the resources to uncover the truth and whether he made a sincere effort to do so.

    On the other hand if someone reaches a wrong conclusion despite his sincere effort (only happens seldom) then he’ll be home free.

    The only thing that is absolutely unforgivable is associating partners with God. The reason for this is that internally we know that there’s only one Creator, and externally we have nothing that reasons otherwise.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 14, 2020 at 1:57 am

      So is it correct to conclude huqooq ul ibaad don’t actually hold much weight (at least when it comes to these situations) as it results in incomplete justice

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 14, 2020 at 10:33 am
    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator August 14, 2020 at 10:34 am

      Your question is not clear.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 14, 2020 at 10:36 am

      ‘On the other hand… he’ll be home free’

      If he sincerely thought killing people for Islam is correct (after asking and searching etc)-then will God forgive him even when the people he murdered in this state of unknowing-ness won’t?

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator August 14, 2020 at 10:40 am

      I don’t think that anyone can reach that conclusion after being intellectually honest and making sincere effort. Please read the last sentence of my previous paragraph.

  • Sameer Bhagwat

    Contributor August 14, 2020 at 2:14 am

    “The only thing that is absolutely unforgivable is associating partners with God. The reason for this is that internally we know that there’s only one Creator, and externally we have nothing that reasons otherwise.”

    I think associating partners with God is forgiven as long as the person repents.. and converts to monotheistic Islam, otherwise those polytheists who converted to Islam, would not have been forgiven.

    If it were the case that “internally we know that shirk is wrong”, that would never have been forgiven.

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator August 14, 2020 at 10:30 am

      Unforgivable was not used in the eternal sense. When a person is held accountable for his actions on the day of judgement, he won’t have any justification for shirk. Of course if he repented during his lifetime and sincerely mended his ways then he should have faith in God’s mercy.

      Your last paragraph has no intellectual basis. Please apply that principle to other sins and situations and see if you reach the same conclusion.

  • Sameer Bhagwat

    Contributor August 14, 2020 at 10:34 am

    If after repentance, even shirk is forgiven, then what is the point of saying that Allah will never forgive shirk ?

    Your last paragraph has no intellectual basis. Please apply that principle to other sins and situations and see if you reach the same conclusion.”

    I think it depends on which crime you see as worst.. a crime of rape/murder or polytheism. In my view, polytheism can’t be worse than crimes like rape/murder, which have a chance to be forgiven.

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator August 14, 2020 at 10:41 am

      The point was clearly explained in my response above.

      There’s no reason to compare crimes. If you had read my response from yesterday it would have been very clear.

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