Ask Ghamidi

A Community Driven Discussion Portal
To Ask, Answer, Share And Learn

Forums Forums Sources of Islam Obeying The Messenger

  • Obeying The Messenger

    Posted by Ahmad Shoaib on August 18, 2020 at 8:17 pm

    What aspects of our life today show that we are obeying the messenger. The Quran makes it clear in 4:80 that obeying the messenger is equivalent to obeying God.

    So when we pray we are obeying the messenger or God or both? If it is both then by what aspect are we following the messenger?

    Is it that the he teaches the deen therefore when we pray we are fulfilling his teachings but by the mere fact that we obey him we are obeying God?

    @UmerQureshi

    Ahmad Shoaib replied 3 years, 4 months ago 3 Members · 27 Replies
  • 27 Replies
  • Obeying The Messenger

    Ahmad Shoaib updated 3 years, 4 months ago 3 Members · 27 Replies
  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor August 18, 2020 at 8:25 pm

    Or is obeying the messenger restricted to the time of the sahaba?

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor August 18, 2020 at 8:26 pm

    And what is the source from where we can get the ruling to obey? Is it the Quran or Hadith or Sunnah?

  • Umer

    Moderator August 18, 2020 at 8:51 pm

    Please read this or watch the lectures provided at the end:

    Discussion 23189

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 9:03 pm

      So when we follow a directive in the Quran we are obeying the messenger? I understand how sahaba could obey the messenger as a personal arbitrator in their matters but for us we don’t have that direct connection

    • Umer

      Moderator August 18, 2020 at 9:07 pm

      For us, obeying Quran and Sunnah is equivalent to obeying The Prophet (sws) which is equivalent to obeying the God.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 9:13 pm

      Sorry bhai for still having some confusion.

      How is obeying the Quran obeying the prophet ‎﴾ﷺ﴿. Rather it seems to be obeying God directly

      . It seems as though it is impossible for us to obey the messenger directly in the current day.

    • Umer

      Moderator August 18, 2020 at 9:19 pm

      Where did you get Quran and Sunnah from?

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 9:22 pm

      I got it from Muhammad ‎﴾ﷺ﴿

      But now that he has delivered to be this Quran and sunnah I follow it with the mindset of following God.

      It’s like my sister tells me your mother says make her tea. Now if I make her tea I am following my mother’s command.

      But I guess we could say if my mother sends my sister as a supervisor and advisor on HOW to make the tea- I am following my sister’s command knowing it is actually my mother who I am obeying

      So what is the tea and what is the method when it comes to Islam?

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor August 18, 2020 at 9:42 pm

    https://youtu.be/cHvgN0z9L_I

    In this video Ghamidi sahab mentions how even if the prophet ‎﴾ﷺ﴿ gives an unjust ruling in a court the person should accept the ruling. And all views should be accepted.

    What about the cross pollination incident where medina went in financial crisis and also where one of the sahabi asked whether giving divorce was a command or a view?

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 9:51 pm

      How can the ruling of Prophet be unjust ? All his actions in the matters of deen are inspired by God almighty, and we know that God is just. So, it is not possible that Prophet will give any unjust ruling.. may be it is our misunderstanding that we call it unjust.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 9:53 pm

      Eg cross pollination of medinah. Eg And if someone misrepresents the facts to him

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 9:56 pm

      I know of one hadith where Prophet ordered the stoning of an innocent man, assuming that he was the rapist/molester, while the girl identified him, and later when it was known that he was innocent, then Prophet changed his ruling and ordered the stoning of the real rapist/molester.

      Allah will help the Prophet make the right decision even when someone tries to deceive him.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 9:56 pm

      Please bring the hadith

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 9:59 pm
    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 10:03 pm

      Not opening

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 10:06 pm

      Narrated ‘Alqamah bin Wa’il Al-Kindi:

      From his father: “A women went out during the time of the Prophet (ﷺ) to go to Salat, but she was caught by a man and he had relations with her, so she screamed and he left. Then a man came across her and she said: ‘That man has done this and that to me’, then she came across a group of Emigrants (Muhajirin) and she said: ‘That man did this and that to me.’ They went to get the man she thought had relations with her, and they brought him to her. She said: ‘Yes, that’s him.’ So they brought him to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), and when he ordered that he be stoned, the man who had relations with her, said: ‘O Messenger of Allah, I am the one who had relations with her.’ So he said to her: ‘Go, for Allah has forgiven you.’ Then he said some nice words to the man (who was brought). And he said to the man who had relations with her: ‘Stone him.’ Then he said: ‘He has repented a repentance that, if the inhabitants of Al-Madinah had repented with, it would have been accepted from them.’ ‘

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 10:10 pm

      This hadith is very unclear and confusing

      It seems that the correct man was stoned in the end?

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 10:15 pm

      Yes, initially Prophet ordered the stoning of innocent man, but then Allah caused the real culprit to accept his crime and thus he was stoned. Also, the girl who put false charges on the innocent man was forgiven by Allah.

      This proves that Allah always helps the Prophet make the right decision .

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 10:16 pm

      Where does it imply Allah caused this?

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 10:17 pm

      Allah inspired the real culprit to accept his crime so that innocent man was saved. Also, the girl who put false charges on the innocent man was forgiven by Allah as Prophet mentioned.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 10:18 pm

      Where does it say this inspiration occurred?

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor August 18, 2020 at 10:21 pm

      Context .. clearly the Prophet told to the woman who put false charges on the innocent man, that Go, Allah has forgiven you. How did the Prophet know Allah has forgiven the woman who put false charges ? It is because Allah might have informed the Prophet.

      Initially the Prophet ordered the stoning of innocent man, and it is obvious Allah will not let an innocent man be killed by the Prophet, and since we know that Allah always helped Prophet make the right decision, isn’t it obvious that without Allah’s will, the real culprit wouldn’t confess his crime ?

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor August 18, 2020 at 10:03 pm

    @UmerQureshi

    If we take the cross pollination of Medina incident. Would it be correct if the inhabitants did not stop cross pollinating even after the distaste mentioned by the prophet ‎﴾ﷺ﴿ ?

    • Umer

      Moderator August 19, 2020 at 4:56 pm

      What does cross pollination incident have to do with obeying the Prophet in his capacity as Prophet and then in his capacity as a political leader (for matter of courts, verdicts, all matters in His capacity as a head of state)? This latter (i.e political obedience) was necessary to to avoid any kind of chaos in the society, this was in effect an extension of obeying Him (sws) in His (sws) capacity as a Prophet(sws).

      The incident you referred to was an individual incident without having any bearing on it being an order in capacity as a Prophet or as a head of state. But people were still so sensitive to obeying the Prophet (sws) that they actually considered it a religious order. But later on Prophet (sws) himself clarified that this is not the kind of obedience demanded of Muslims.

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor August 19, 2020 at 5:46 pm

    @UmerQureshi there is also another thing.

    How do we come to know the prophet ‎﴾ﷺ﴿ is a nabi? By the Quran. And the Quran tells us to obey him.

    Isn’t this circular reasoning?

    Because we have to obey him in the first place to make it a fard for us to obey him

    • Umer

      Moderator August 20, 2020 at 4:10 pm

      This is too circular for me to garb onto, I am lost inside this circle Sweat Smile

      Belief in God is the basic premise of religion, rest of the beliefs stem from this basic belief and are a necessary corollary of this belief. Without Prophet (and by extension without Quran), you would never be able to materialize the relationship between creator and the created in its truest form and with all its necessary details. In their absence, you will be able to reach this conclusion that there is a creator, but you will never be able to see through beyond that point.

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor March 8, 2021 at 4:07 pm

    I thought of this analogy:

    If my mum tells my sister to teach me how to make tea for her- my sister will come and I want to obey my mother and I will do it through her teaching me how to do so.

    I think this simple analogy fixes the issue.

    I have heard some opinions that obeying the messenger was actually for the sahabah specifically and it meant obeying him in a political sense as a community leader- is that also true or is that a part of the ruling rather than its essence?

You must be logged in to reply.
Login | Register