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  • Multiple Marriages

     Nadeem Minhas updated 1 month, 2 weeks ago 10 Members · 53 Posts
  • Hamza Jamal Jan

    Member August 22, 2020 at 11:55 pm

    Is it permissible to have more than four wives at a time?

  • Ayema Zahoor

    Member August 23, 2020 at 7:20 am
  • Ayema Zahoor

    Member August 23, 2020 at 7:21 am
  • Hamza Jamal Jan

    Member August 23, 2020 at 7:28 am

    Ghamdi Sb in a show said that Allah didn’t dicuss the issue of polygamy in Quran, the question that comes up here is that, where this restriction on marrying more than four wives at a time comes from?

  • Ayema Zahoor

    Member August 23, 2020 at 7:33 am

    For Muslims, polygamy draws its validity from Chapter 4 of the Quran. Its verses allow men to marry “two or three or four” women, but ask them to have a single wife if they “fear” they cannot treat them all with equal fairness. And this, verse 129 declares, is difficult for men to achieve despite their best efforts.

    • Sameer Bhagwat

      Contributor August 23, 2020 at 7:45 am

      The verse 4:129 doesn’t say it is difficult. It says you will NEVER be able to be fair and just between wives EVEN if you strive to do so.

  • Ayema Zahoor

    Member August 23, 2020 at 7:45 am

    وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تُقْسِطُوا فِي الْيَتَامَىٰ فَانكِحُوا مَا طَابَ لَكُم مِّنَ النِّسَاءِ مَثْنَىٰ وَثُلَاثَ وَرُبَاعَ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تَعْدِلُوا فَوَاحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ذَٰلِكَ أَدْنَىٰ أَلَّا تَعُولُوا

    And if you be apprehensive that you will not be able to do justice to the orphans, you may marry two or three or four women whom you choose. But if you apprehend that you might not be able to do justice to them, then many only one wife, or marry those women who have fallen in your possession. This will be the better course to avoid injustice.

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator August 23, 2020 at 10:12 am

    The Islamic social sharia regarding polygamy has been explained in Ghamidi sahab’s book Meezan, as well as his Meezan lecture videos. Following are the videos that you will find useful.

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator August 23, 2020 at 10:12 am
  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator August 23, 2020 at 10:12 am
  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator August 23, 2020 at 10:13 am
  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator August 23, 2020 at 10:14 am
  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator August 23, 2020 at 10:15 am
  • misbah imad

    Member August 31, 2020 at 8:28 am

    I have one disagreement with ghamidi sahab regarding this issue-

    He has said on several occassions that –

    “The fact that Allah made one Hawwa for Adam points to the fact that “good” families are to be formed with one husband and one wife”

    I don’t think that he has sufficient grounds in the Qur’an to support this argument. He could claim this argument, regarding marrying one woman, by refering to his own experience of the Indian subcontinent’s cultural norms.

    But he CANNOT form this argument on the basis of the Qur’an.

    The context in which the Qur’an mentions the creation of one Hawwa for one Adam, does not suggest that polygamy is either good or bad, but that all human beings are the children of the same parents, so they should keep this blood relationship in mind while dealing with one another, person to person and nation to nation… It also points towards many other things but certainly does not point towards polygamy being good or bad for the family llife of human beings…

    • Farhan Saiyed

      Moderator September 1, 2020 at 12:40 am

      I don’t think Ghamidi sb has ever written anywhere that his preferred suggestion of monogamy is based on the Quran. Can you quote from his book? Maybe I missed it.

      I believe his suggestion of monogamy is based on the conclusion that human understanding has collectively arrived based on the experience of centuries of practice of polygamy. Polygamy made a lot more sense in tribal cultures and with diminishing tribal cultures in the world, the negatives and complexities of polygamy heavily outweigh its benefits.

    • misbah imad

      Member September 1, 2020 at 12:53 am

      Please watch from 2:35 onwards. This is one such occssion that he mentioned it, there are many more.

  • Ayema Zahoor

    Member August 31, 2020 at 9:25 am

    The answer is there in your question that you said that all human beings are children of the same parents so it shows that it’s the strong foundation of a family system. If a humankind needs a strong base like same parents than think how much a family need this for its strength and betterment. And above Ayat also suggests that if you are not able to do justice than only one wife.

    • misbah imad

      Member August 31, 2020 at 9:00 pm

      What I am saying is that there is no basis for that argument in the Quran. What our experience teaches us is a different matter.

      I am using ghamidi sahab’s own technique here.

      I could argue that Allah creating One Hawwa for Adam does not say anything about future generations keeping one wife or many. It was the start of a creation, the beginnings of anything are different.

      I think ghamidi sahab made an intellectual leap here. Just like the Qur’an neither allows nor prohibits several wifes…

      So too, It does not argue over one wife being the intended way for a good or bad family life.

      I agree with ghamidi sahab’s interpretation of the aayaat of Surah Nisa. But I could not find the place where the Quran made such a suggestion that he claims regarding one man and one wife.

  • Rafia Khawaja

    Member August 31, 2020 at 11:11 pm

    It is very clear that it is very difficult for any man to treat all wives alike, financially he may but emotionally it is very natural to feel more strongly for one compared to the others. Where does it leave the other wives?

    • misbah imad

      Member August 31, 2020 at 11:29 pm

      It was and is not required of a man to love all his wives equally.

      I don’t contest the fact that a large pocket is essential for more wives and historically, that was the case. Those who had the means to afford more women would do so.

      Usually, no woman would wilfully marry a man who did not have the means to support her.

  • Rafia Khawaja

    Member August 31, 2020 at 11:39 pm

    I don’t agree. As a woman I would like my husband to love me and not share his love with three other wives! Prophet sws was given permission to marry several wives for certain reasons. We human beings cannot live up to those standards. In our World if a man has two wives he faces great difficulties and backlash from the children. The Arab society is different. Money counts a lot there because the wives are not financially idependant!

    • misbah imad

      Member August 31, 2020 at 11:45 pm

      I don’t care about what you or I want. I don’t find it in the Quran, the demand to love the wives equally or the suggestion that good house holds are formed with one husband and one wife.

      If you don’t want it, you don’t need to be a part of such a family. But you or I don’t have the right to close that door to other men and women who would be willing to adopt that life style.

    • misbah imad

      Member September 1, 2020 at 12:02 am

      And another thing, a woman doesn’t usually marry a man, who is of a lower social and/or financial status than herself. Even if she does marry him, she doesn’t usually respect him ( As was the case with zainab bint jahsh and zaid )…

      This is true from America to Arabia. Women behave this way everywhere, no matter how financially independent they become…

      The only thing that stops women from becoming 2nd or 3rd wives, is the social stigma attached to it, not finances.

    • Ayema Zahoor

      Member September 1, 2020 at 8:20 am

      A few women cannot represent the all women. In this time we see many women are living with their low income husband happily and struggling with them for the betterment of their family. And mostly women who make Decision to become second or third wife they mostly have no respect for their old (بڈھا( husband. Money is not the condition for second marriage which verse of Quran tells you if you can afford then you can do second marriage.

    • misbah imad

      Member September 1, 2020 at 8:41 am

      the same verse which “if you can’t do justice between them, then only one”….

      There is another way, if the woman herself decides to let go of some of her rights, then the man need not treat his wife the same way he treats his other wives. This happened with a wife of Rasoolullah, when one wife decided to give her turn to aisha. I dont remember the names exactly, but I remember the story…

    • Saba Madani

      Member September 3, 2020 at 3:59 pm

      I think her name was Sawdah (R)

    • misbah imad

      Member September 1, 2020 at 8:45 am

      You say that Second and third wives don’t have respect for their “buddha” husband, but you women want us men to have respect and stick to our “buddhi” wife ?

    • Ayema Zahoor

      Member September 1, 2020 at 9:03 am

      You can marry a woman of your choice after that you should have respect Loyalty for your relationship and I think a wife is usually younger than Husband or the same age. when she becomes old than you also become old. For making a house to home she puts her efforts more then you. And if you have no love and care of your life partner’s emotions. You can do what you want no one can force a selfish man for making his decisions. But Remember single marriage is prevail due to universal wisdom. It’s societies decision century to century. Pls text me the translation of the verse you mentioned I also remember a counter Hadith which allows a poor man more the one wives.

    • misbah imad

      Member September 1, 2020 at 9:16 am

      I never said that deen imposes the condition of being wealthy to be a condition for more wives, I said historically, well off people with large enough pockets used to have more wives. Deen only imposed the condition of “Adl”… Being rich or poor may or may not matter for that.

      Of course a poor man can marry more women, the condition being that the wives let him survive after that…Heeeeeeheheheheee

      That “counter hadith” you said you knew, please quote it to me, because I am not financially sound myself…

    • Ayema Zahoor

      Member September 1, 2020 at 10:00 am

      a person came to the Prophet and told him that he was very poor. The Prophet suggested that he get married. He went and got married and became poorer. He came back to the Prophet and explained the situation to him. The Prophet again told him to go and get another wife. He did and became very rich.I don’t know it’s authentic or not but many mollanas describes this Hadith. I want to say that if you’re not happy with your wife then Second or third wife can’t make you happy Arabs are the best example for this some have more than 20 wives and some more than 70 but still looking for another. So learn to live happy life with your wife and family. Don’t creat problem for them especially for children.

    • Saba Madani

      Member September 3, 2020 at 4:04 pm

      Ok Hand

    • Saba Madani

      Member September 3, 2020 at 4:01 pm

      Grinning

  • Rafia Khawaja

    Member September 1, 2020 at 1:05 am

    I totally agree with what Ghamidi Sahib says. At the time of the Prophet sws there were wars which left widows and orphan children. So the men were advised to marry the mothers of these orphans to give them a better life..the verse 4:129 says clearly you will not be able to do justice even if you want to. I agree with Farhan Syed that Polygamy in our times has many negative issues compared to the tribal times. I remember Ghamidi was once asked in a program about a second marriage, he smiled and replied to the effect that coping with one wife is a challenge, and if you want to create real problems for yourself, then bring a second wife. His advice for the peace and harmony of the whole family stick to one wife!

  • Rafia Khawaja

    Member September 1, 2020 at 1:12 am

    My second question is if a man is already married why would you want to break his home, and disrupt his family life? Aren’t they any bachelors left? Just because Allah has given permission under special circumstances to marry again, does it mean a man just gets married to another woman who is younger and prettier than his first wife because she makes him feel young again?!

    • misbah imad

      Member September 1, 2020 at 1:27 am

      First of all, Allah never “gave the permission”, because there was no restriction in the first place according to Ghamidi sahab’s understanding, which I think is correct.. And there are more women who would sell their body for money, and many more men who would buy them, because it is much less a trouble than marriage. And there are also many ways, to get to be “friends” with other women ( which is much more painful and nastier than visiting Pro****es ) This has happened because women don’t want men to marry anyone else, once they are married.

      If a halal door is closed, many other doors open that have VERY nasty rooms on the other side… Because it is already hard to marry, but several ways a man can have sex with other women and get himself and other women in trouble.

    • misbah imad

      Member September 1, 2020 at 1:46 am

      Illicit relationships between men and women form because men want women, and women want a man’s money and/or care…

      Women don’t have the same sex drive as a man. This is evident from the fact that a man has to either offer them money or false promises or sweet words to get what he wants from them, his body alone does not attract a woman..

      These lies and deceptions could be less prevalent if other legal doors which society, not God, shut on itself, were opened wide…

  • Taha Yasin

    Member September 1, 2020 at 9:48 am

    Please follow the link. Ghamidi sb has beautifully articulated the concept of polygamy in this piece of writing. This might help you.

    http://www.al-mawrid.org/index.php/articles/view/polygamy#_ftn1

  • Ayema Zahoor

    Member September 1, 2020 at 10:06 am

    Jazak Allah khair

  • Rafia Khawaja

    Member September 1, 2020 at 4:19 pm

    You are entitled to your opinion. If a man wants to keep a mistress hidden away he can do it with one wife or two wives or more. I still maintain that a single woman or divorcee should not get involved with a married man. If she is unhappily married then leave her husband but please don’t get involved with a married man regardless of what he is offering. What happened at the time of Prophet sws is not applicable today. Is the man marrying a woman after a battle where there are widows and orphans left to be given a home ? I think this situation is not applicable today

  • Rafia Khawaja

    Member September 1, 2020 at 4:26 pm

    Also Allah says if you fear that you may not be able to treat all your wives justly then please follow ayat 4:129

  • Rafia Khawaja

    Member September 2, 2020 at 9:43 pm

    Dr Saleem Shehzad while explaining Multiple Marriages used the word ” ijazat ” which I understand is permission

  • Rafia Khawaja

    Member September 2, 2020 at 9:48 pm

    This permission is not bounding !

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator March 3, 2021 at 10:23 am

    Please also watch:

    https://youtu.be/3pDwKYMUg0k

  • Nadeem Minhas

    Member March 3, 2021 at 9:44 pm

    Lot of good dialog. A few bullet points.

    -Quran seems to dicourage multiple wives, but puts no restrictions on having multiple wives to ensure when cultural, economical or societal needs dictate, there is no hinderance from Allah. Although it seems like there is a restriction on having more than 4 wives, I am of the opinion that there is likely no restriction on the number of wives.

    -Multiple marriage in Islam is to help the society. Multiple marriages is not soleley for pleasure purposes, but to also help poor, divorced, widowed or generally to help women who are having difficulty getting married otherwise. This is to make sure that women are taken care of and to reduce immorality in the society.

    -The question whether women like to share a husband or not is a cultural issue. This is not universal. Wouldn’t it be better for a women as a last resort to share a husband, being financially taken care of than never getting married, struggling financially or turning towards immorality.

    – Also it is the fact that females are born more in numbers than male children. Female lifespan is longer too. More male die due to wars and disease. For this reason most times there are more females than male. When such situation arises, marrying multiple wives can really help the society.

    – Finally can a man love all wives equally? The answer is NO, but a good person will try to make sure it is not apparent or there is no extreme bias. A good person will try to treat them equally as much as possible.

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator March 3, 2021 at 10:27 pm

      I’m not sure how you summarized these bullet points, however they’re certainly not from Ghamidi sahab’s videos posted above. Also there are several misconceptions and factual inaccuracies in these bullet points.

    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member March 3, 2021 at 10:55 pm

      Faisal this is my opinion. I didn’t summarize Ghamidi Sahib’s perspective. I did not use any hard facts, but I would like to know, which ones are not correct so I could further look into them.

  • Nadeem Minhas

    Member March 3, 2021 at 11:18 pm

    Faisal I just checked.

    It seems like statistics is changing and slightly more males are born than females. The same statistics show that more males are dying. Overall in the World there are still more females even after gender selection has become an option.

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator March 3, 2021 at 11:39 pm
    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member March 4, 2021 at 5:54 am

      I agree with you Faisal, the population is approximately evenly divided between genders. Perhaps there will be more males than females soon due to gender selection. Without gender selection there has been more females than males. But that ratio can changes fast. In case of wars or disease males die more. It is still possible that in some cities or countries the ratio may be imbalanced in favor of females anytime. We are digressing from the topic. The point is that regardless of the ratio, having multiple wives in Islam is primarily allowed to provide support and protection to women who need it. Even if there were more males than females but if women were suppressed or abused, the permission still applies for the benefit of the society.

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator March 4, 2021 at 9:28 am

      God has kept the ratio of male/female population stable at almost 50% each for the last 60+ years (that’s as far back as any reliable data is available), and we should hope that He shall continue to do the same. Gender selection is nothing new – it is just more scientific and hence probably more accurate.

    • Faisal Haroon

      Moderator March 4, 2021 at 12:38 pm

      Also it’s not entirely correct to state that Islam “allows” polygamy. The correct perspective according to Ghamidi sahab, that I also agree with, is that Islam doesn’t place any restrictions on multiple marriages. However, it does stress that if such are undertaken then one needs to act justly amongst all wives.

    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member March 4, 2021 at 1:10 pm

      Faisal, I agree, but I am confused on your definition of polygamy. Having 4 wives at a time is polygamy or am I mistaken¿ Whether having more than 4 wives at one time is allowed or not, Allah knows better, but Ghamidi sahib says not allowed.

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