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  • جبل احد، آپ ﷺ اور صحابہ سے متعلق روا ت کی حیثیت

    Posted by Arsalan on August 29, 2020 at 11:05 am

    کیا یہ روایت درست ہے؟

    پس منظر شہید ، شہید ہونے سے پہلے ہی وہ شہید ہوتے ہے۔ ایک عزیز نے اس روایت کو بنیاد بنایا ہے۔

    Umer replied 3 years, 5 months ago 2 Members · 7 Replies
  • 7 Replies
  • جبل احد، آپ ﷺ اور صحابہ سے متعلق روا ت کی حیثیت

    Umer updated 3 years, 5 months ago 2 Members · 7 Replies
  • Umer

    Moderator August 29, 2020 at 7:34 pm

    Assalamualikum Arsalan Sahab!

    Can you please further elaborate your question?

    • Arsalan

      Member August 29, 2020 at 10:44 pm

      Walikum Assalam: so the back ground of this conversation was that my freind is an Ahmadi. He said in Surah Nisa Ayat number 69, Allah says that one muslims can be Sidiqeen, Shuhuda & Saliheen similarly they can become Nabi aswell. My responsed was that the verse is actually talking about companionship opportunity that people can get with these people by simply following Allah & his Rasool in Jannah. This is what Ghamidi shb said too in his explanation.

      He brought this riwayah that this is also in this world too because Shaheed is a shaheed even before Shahadat therefore this verse is about both in this world & Akhirah. The argument to reach this conclusion is very long. Lol

      I wanted to know the authenticity of this riwayah & its meaning if possible. I doubt it because this whole mountain shaking & prophet talking to it makes it sketchy.

    • Umer

      Moderator August 30, 2020 at 8:32 am

      Whatever possibility verse (4:69) might create regarding prophethood (in someone’s mind), verse (33:40) puts an end to it very explicitly. There are some other verses Ahmadi scholars use to put-forth their claim of Prophethood but to every such claim, (33:40) is the answer. If you look at the discussion that Ghamidi Sahab had with members of Ahmadiya community, they were not even willing to discuss (33:40) with Ghamidi Sahab. One can easily wonder as to why they were hesitant about it. You can watch that discussion here at the following thread-link:

      Discussion 4625 • Reply 9344

      Now coming to the Siddeqeen, Shohadah and Saleheen. Verse (3:170) talks about possibility of future Shohadah specifically, but logically also, it is quite understandable that there shouldn’t be any bar for pious muslims to reach to the level of Saleheen, Shohahdah and Siddiqeen. These are representations of a life style embedded to its core with admitting and expressing truth of religion.

      The term ‘Shahdah’ does not refer to just instantly dying one day while fighting enemies of Islam.

      It refers to attitude of person who understands the truth of religion and then decides to live the rest of his life bearing witness to that truth in front of everyone no matter the consequences. This is called the life of Shahdah (A person would still be shaheed who dies under normal circumstances but lived his life in accordance with these attributes). And sometimes, during that process of standing-up to people for the sake of truth, there might come a time when a person has to even sacrifice his life (whether in fight or under any oppression); this sacrifice of life is the epitome of Shahdah.

      Once you understand this concept, you can relate this concept to the narration that you mentioned. There is no doubt that Abubakr (rta), Umar (rta) and Uthman (rta) were living embodiment of Shahdah and Siddeeqeyat. It should not be suprising if Prophet (sws) mentioned this apparent fact which history is a witness was completely true. In addition, there could be reference to their death as well, as epitome of their Shahdah.

      So without going into details of ‘this whole mountain shaking & prophet talking to it’, the narration actually doesn’t negate the whole framework of Shahdah understood in the light of Quran.

  • Arsalan

    Member August 30, 2020 at 9:36 am

    Thank you. Umer Bhai for the comments. I have listen to that discussion between Ghamidi shb & Ahamdi people in Canada.

    They kept insisting that why dont we use other verses to understand 33:40 and asked Ghamidi shb that this is your usool. He persisted and clarified that it will be applied when the verse it will show any ابہام and need clarification. Outcome was same as usual

    • Umer

      Moderator August 30, 2020 at 11:35 am

      Yes! but Ghamidi Sahab did defer 33:40 for a while and discussed the other verse describing how Allah communicates with His Prophets. After Ghamidi Sahab’s argument, the arguing member suddenly jumped from that verse to another without even responding to Ghamidi Sahab’s argument.

      Actually, if you look at all these verses and compare them, it is verse 33:40 that cannot be interpreted in any other meaning (unless you intentionally translate it erroneously for your public), the rest of the verses can be misused by anyone (not convincingly, but still). No matter which verse you begin with, 33:40 is the one to end with. And if you begin with 33:40, then there is no room to go to any other verse because it is so absolute in its verdict and leaves no room for any interpretation.

  • Arsalan

    Member August 30, 2020 at 12:13 pm

    Ansar Raza shb in that video later made an another video clarifiying his stance yet again twisting facts related to that conversation with Ghamidi shb.

    • Umer

      Moderator August 31, 2020 at 3:52 pm

      Wow! how convenient. One can only say ‘inna lillah…’

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