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Men Wearing Shorts That Uncover Thighs
Is there any problem in this? For sports and to wear during prayer? Or even just as a comfortable choice?
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45 Replies
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Men Wearing Shorts That Uncover Thighs
updated 11 months, 1 week ago
4 Members
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45
Replies
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What about swimming when they wear just a small underwear?
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And if I can shorts for play can I wear them for praying?
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Etiquettes of dressing vary from situation to situation, for Salah, etiquettes are different and for sports, they are different. In all circumstances however, the requirement of وَ یَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوْجَھُنَّ should be observed but its application may very from situation to situation and from society to society as well.
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So as long as we protect our private parts we can pray? You don’t actually need to wear shorts for sports. You can wear a tracksuit. Etiquettes aren’t always honorable like you mentioned eg In swimming. So the base principle is humility and protecting private’s right?
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Do thighs come under privates? I know it varies from society but what does the fitrah day? It’s either humble or not- can’t be humble here and not there.
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It is application of وَ یَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوْجَھُنَّ directive
Ghamidi Sahab also considers it from navel to knees for men as a minimum requirement of this directive, but someone can argue otherwise as well. Matters of application will always be subject to some differences.
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If Ghamidi sahab believes this then why did he say wearing shorts is allowed for sports? If it doesn’t fulfil protecting private’s according to him the why would it be allowed even for sports?
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Because he understands that its a matter of application. Any sensible scholar would give due regard to this fact.
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Sorry I don’t understand. How does guarding private’s change with a matter of application? The location of the private parts doesn’t change or something.
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Privates are guarded in all circumstances, its a matter of understanding how far does the application of وَ یَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوْجَھُنَّ extends to under normal circumstances and whether etiquettes of extension vary from situation to situation or not.
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The directive is to ‘guard private parts’. Now if thighs are part of private parts then they should never be uncovered whether for the etiquette of sport or otherwise
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Never? How about when using the restroom? How about when bathing? How about medical checkups or surgeries? Just like all these are need based exceptions, there can be other including sports. Of course one should be sensitive to these etiquettes and only avail exceptions when really necessary, however, that’s for an individual to decide.
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Sorry sir but I thought it was assumed that this is only in front of others.
You don’t go to the toilet in front of others and doing so in public would be a violation of the directive- as it pertains clearly to public gatherings.
Medical check-ups are necessary for health- this is an exception to the rule, and shouldn’t be made the rule itself, or affect its scope.
Same with bathing, it is a private matter.
Sports, however, are public gatherings and should come under the scope of this directive. We have no need to play sports either, the above are all necessities, and they don’t come under the scope of the directive anyway. So when we play sports, the private parts don’t magically reduce in size. So if the thighs are part of the private area, they should be covered at all times within the scope and spirit of the directive.
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This confusion will always stay because we are approaching the religion from different premises.
If one believes religion to be an authority that states everything in black and white, with every listing available in an exhaustive manner, then surely one would be stern about all the matters of application of those injunctions, and try to find each and every matter of application from every available source (i.e. Hadith corpus) as an absolute directive, whether they be dietary or related to matters of Hijab/parda. The belief that either something is halal or it is haram, there is no in-between left to a person’s strength of relationship with God, which inculcates more piety and modesty within a person.
The second viewpoint sees religion complementing a person’s nature/fitrah, with all the basic foundations present within the pre-set of human existence. Once you start appreciating the nature of relationship between religion and fitrah, you start to understand the differences in the application of certain religious directives as well. So when Quran says وَ یَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوْجَھُنَّ that definitely means that private parts need to be covered which is right in accordance with our fitrah, but how much this covering needs to extend in order to fully comply with the actual spirit of the directive, this is a matter of application and extensions may vary from scholar to scholar and from situation to situation as well.
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I think I understand where you’re coming from. But the spirit of the directive is one thing. And the clear words are another. It is obvious that the private area can’t shrink in size- it is a part of your body. Now, depending on situation, any extra covering you would do could be lessened eg working in the fields you could take of shirt maybe. But for example there is no situation where uncovering sexual organs would be appropriate. So can I conclude that the thighs are part of the extra covering we do like a shirt. And that uncovering them (for men, maybe 1/3 of the bottom part) is completely fine for prayer. Any more than that, it takes away from the private region.
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Every rational Muslim would observe every bit of decency w.r.t what he/she should wear when prostrating before their lord, I would be amazed if someone consciously and without any genuine reason prays his/her Salah in shorts.
I’d request you to please watch the following lectures:
The following comments might also help you understand the application issue that we were discussing w.r.t sports and swimming etc. Please refer to the video below from 46:00 to 51:13
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If a rational Muslim believes that shorts are decent clothing- no different from jeans. Just- you wear shorts when it’s hot and trousers when it’s cold. Then he could prostrate in front of his lord with a clear conscience. Ghamidi sahab talked about the lazmi satr of a man. Lazmi means lazmi- why should anyone’s interest in sports be more important that a lazmi satr? And how are thighs part of this? I mean I don’t know- is it a source of attraction for women or something? Does it really lead to adultery?
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If a rational Muslim actually believes that it is a decent clothing to offer Salah in shorts, then no worries, I will just advise him otherwise in a polite manner, that’s all. But I still have to find that rational muslim who thinks this way.
Regarding your second part; have you watched all the lectures on Parda?
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I must be irrational then…
No I haven’t
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Finally! found one
Please take your time and watch these lectures and come back with your questions. The discussion on Surah Nur verses starts from Part-7.
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@UmerQureshi I have watched some of the videos now. Ghamidi sahab says that covering the thighs comes under Hifz.
And this makes sense. Hifz is always extra and preventative
But aren’t there many Hadith where the prophet ﴾ﷺ﴿ had uncovered thighs? And also the hifz is to be done at all times. So you have to cover the thighs even when swimming or playing sports.
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On one hand we have narrations from Prophet (sws) that thighs are private parts and need to be covered and on other hand, there are Ahadith in which Prophet’s (sws) thighs were seen while riding a horse etc.
What happened was exactly what we’ve been trying to discuss and is right in accordance with Quran. Prophet Muhammad (sws) saying that thighs are private parts and need to be covered is actually the same description of وَ یَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوْجَھُنَّ (as being covering of a part annexed right next to private parts to ensure proper and complete covering of privates). However, in certain situations, when it came to the matter of applications, Prophet’s (sws) thighs were seen uncovered because of requirement of those situations.
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You can very easily ride a horse whilst covering your thighs- I have been doing it for a long time.
It is not a requirement ever to have to uncover your thighs. Anything can be done with them covered
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go back 1,400 years and text me from there how to do that
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Shalwar kameez- I believe the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم used to have one too.
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Tehmad was used at that time, not shalwar kameez. Pajamas were there but very rare.
It cannot be conclusively said that how many times it happened and exactly how it happened, but the point to be considered is that if sometimes it does happen, then we should not be so stern as to give out-right declarations of Haram; instead, we should take account of certain application matters as well and keep reminding other Muslims of the directive and its spirit, should we see any carelessness at their end in a polite manner.
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Exactly ‘if it does happen’
Why would you participate in an activity that Requires you to violates you hifz of fujur?
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There is no activity that comes to my mind that requires you to do it. So when playing why would I violate my hifz when I can just wear a tracksuit
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Don’t participate bhai!
When am I forcing you to participate
If you can wear a track suit or longer shorts (which in most sports are being worn by men), that’s better; but in circumstances where you have no other option but to wear very short clothes like in swimming or wrestling (because of the rules etc.), then it will be considered as an exception in matter of application and no fatwa of Haram would be given because at the very core of it, you are covering your furuj, but at the same time one should try to get the rules changed for allowing for a clothing which covers those parts in a much better way.
But if you sincerely think that any kind of exposure of thighs, even the smallest glimpse of them is absolutely Haram according to your understanding, the you should follow that understanding in letter and spirit. That is what religion requires from us.
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I personally don’t think that if the hifz required is to cover the thighs that any sport should be played that requires you to not do hifz.
What is meant by application? Application is that thighs should be covered. And in wrestling this application doesn’t apply 😅.
It’s a whole other issue that is covering of thighs really a part of hifz?
And for swimming you would have to wear tight leggings type things that don’t do hifz. And you can’t really wear a tracksuit. So how did the people in the time of the prophet ﴾ﷺ﴿ swim?
If we see school boys (a bit older maybe 14-16) who wear shorts- are they not doing hifz of their furuj? Surely they are?
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What do you think?
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I think you need to spend some time with Mufti Abu Layth to chill out
But on a serious note, I think I have explained the matter to the best of my understanding along with its application. The best thing would be to take other people’s perspective as well and weigh-in all the arguments and make an informed decision. Because, I don’t find anything concrete in your question that has not been previously addressed. But keep thinking on the matter and keep asking questions.
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Ok I’ll just 🥶 then
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So update after a long time. How did people then, sein at the time of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم ?
I still think that if the hugs of furuj in one scenario is form body part x to body part y, that part would logically always have to be covered. You can just make up a situation and say oh here we are going to stop halfway at point z.
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@UmerQureshi , kindly tell me the ‘sanad’ and the context of this hadith. Many scholars have regarded the hadith as ‘weak’. But, What’s your opinion on this hadith, which seems to be strictly commanding the thighs to be covered (and also to not be watched) in probably every situation.
Abu Dawood (3140) and Ibn Maajah (1460) narrated that ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do not show your thigh, and do not look at the thigh of anyone, living or dead.”
Thanks.
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These narrations despite being primarily weak because of weak chain, are categorized as Sahih because of other evidence (صحيح لغيره) by Shuaib Al-Arnaut because of other narrations touching the same topic in quite a large number, for instance:
https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4014
https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:2795
The thighs should be covered in normal circumstances as per directive of Quran وَ یَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوْجَھُنَّ , but if at any instance because of some reason, the thighs do not stay covered or it is not possible to have them covered, then it does not fall in Hukm of Fawahish, rather attempts should be made to ensure the that complete directive of وَ یَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوْجَھُنَّ is being followed by Muslims. The above narrations are pointing toward the same principle that thighs should remain covered and the following narrations are indicative of a situations when it was not possible to cover thighs because of some reason.
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@UmerQureshi, Can one uncover his thighs, in the normal circumstances, if the society don’t regard it as the body part which excites one’s gazes towards the private parts (under the directives of Sadd-e-Zariya)? In other words can society decides the Awrah?
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وَ یَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوْجَھُنَّ includes thighs otherwise the application of this directive would not be complete since it asks for proper and complete protection of the private parts. Ahadith of Prophet (sws) also support this point.
However, there is still natural room for some disagreement in application of this directive as to howmuch thigh should be covered to fulfil this directive. Society cannot be factored into this decision since it is a matter of covering one’s own body while ensuring that private parts are covered to their completion.
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Sir, but sometimes the view of society plays the important role in this directive (sometimes it requires less, sometimes it requires more), such as, now in almost all European cultures wearing the shorts or skirts which uncovers the thighs are not considered as immodest unless, these are too tight or these are revealing the underclothes of someone, while, In the Victorian era, even the ankles were considered as immodest.
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This is social morality that you are talking about which can vary from one culture to another but the basic morality is still the same across all cultures i.e. Private parts should not be openly displayed in the public. Different cultures have different sensitivities in this regard as to how much should be covered to achive this objective.
However, we we enter Islam, we get a religious directive of وَ یَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوْجَھُنَّ (including covering of a part annexed right next to private parts to ensure proper and complete covering of private parts). For a Muslim, this directive takes precedence in which they are required to take extra precaution to protect their private parts. Here, complete protection is required through extra means, so only those cultural norms will be acceptable (for a Muslim) which are in conformity with this directive. Too tight or too revealing clothes are definitely against this directive.
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