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Tawassul And Waseela
What are Ghamidi sahab’s views on tawassul?
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21 Replies
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Tawassul And Waseela
updated 3 years, 7 months ago
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21
Replies
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Please refer to the video below from 1:44:13 to 1:46:37
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I understand how our dua would be accepted because God has decided that he will help people who ask him. But if I ask another person how will that help me? Then it seems that asking this person is basically an act of worship that God has prescribed to undertake so that he can grant us something. But that doesn’t make sense. Where is this concept of asking other people found in the Quran?
When the prophet ﴾ﷺ﴿ was told to make dua for some people is it just to promote the people to do more good, and as a way to increase status as a prophet of God is asking for forgiveness for you? Or is the prophet of God’s dua A condition to grant forgiveness like me asking for forgiveness is? If it not the latter then what is the point?
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Why do you have to see dua in terms of what God can do for you or how will that help you?
Why don’t you see it as a necessary corollary of belief in God to only ask from Him and use every mean available to ask from Him. And as a necessary extension of this very belief, we ask our parents, our teachers, our friends and other elders to pray for us, and we pray for them as well. Even if those prayers don’t bear fruit in this world, then surely they will bear fruit in the hereafter both in terms of your true belief in God, bonafide prayers for others and by others for you.
Regarding Prayers and Intercession of The Prophet Muhammad (sws), we already discussed this topic in-depth in the following thread:
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‘And as a necessary extension of this very belief, we ask our parents, our teachers, our friends and other elders to pray for us, and we pray for them as well. Even if those prayers don’t bear fruit in this world, then surely they will bear fruit in the hereafter both in terms of your true belief in God, bonafide prayers for others and by others for you.’
When I say God will grant us something I meant to imply forgiveness and reward for acting on your belief of God (by the very action of simply asking him, confirming his existence and your need of him).
Why is it a necessary extension? Why would person A praying for person B help person B (even if person B is sincere)?
I understand if God wrote EG of person A asks for this I will forgive him.
But it doesn’t make sense that God would write I will forgive person B if he and person A together ask for forgiveness.
Person A making the dua for B has the same ajr as the dua he would make from himself as, in principle, it confirms the same thing (existence and need), but why would person B be affected by this in any way?
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Again, I had this question in my mind too, and after deliberation I came to the conclusion that this is based upon the principle of Mercy. Only that way it makes sense. For e.g where Allah tells Prophet (pbuh) to ask for forgiveness for those who want to seek it, along with them asking of course. This was only a way to grant them mercy, even though the result of it might manifest fully in the Hereafter?
So in the example you quoted above of person A praying for forgiveness for person B. Person B will be forgiven by his own actions alone, he doesn’t really need A’s prayers for him to be forgiven by God. But it could be that he ‘also’ prayed for B’s forgiveness. So this way, his share of mercy for B is also included in the act. Which will manifest on the day of Judgement. This will only bring out the mercy and sincerity, that only the believers could have for other believers in their hearts. This is how i have understood it.
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‘But it could be that he ‘also’ prayed for B’s forgiveness. So this way, his share of mercy for B is also included in the act.’
So A is having mercy on B- and getting rewarded for that? Sorry if I misunderstood
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Both get rewarded? A for the desire and sincerity for his brother to be forgiven. And B for his own intention to be forgiven. With the extra advantage of A’s dua.
The underlying purpose of all this is to manifest the idea of mercy? What else could it be if not that?
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This is very different to the common narrative I think. But it does seem to make sense. Except for the part that B gets an advantage because of A.
If someone asks you to make dua for them- and you don’t- would that be sinful?
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What is the common narrative?
And what I meant by advantage was extra mercy to both of them. One for wishing it for the other, and so he gets equal mercy for himself too. And the other because he wished it for himself and someone else wished for him too.
So if someone asks me to make dua for them for eg. to be from among those who are guided. They will be guided even if I dont make dua for them. My actions cannot affect Allah’s will for someone else. But if Allah intends mercy for me, he will make me make dua for that person just so I could get my share of His mercy in the Hereafter as well as manifest my sincerity for my brother in the Hereafter?
So you wouldn’t be sinful if you do not make dua. Unless of course if you claim that you did make dua for them, in that case it would be a lie. Otherwise it isnt something binding upon you from God. Like you aren’t recieving direct guidance like the Prophet (pbuh) was to make dua for people.
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I think I get it. A’s dua for B could be accepted. If we switch the focus from B being forgiven to A asking to forgive B it becomes clear. And A’s dua would only be accepted if B deserves it. So B gets more forgiveness because A’s dua was accepted
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That is correct.
To make sure we both are on the same page, I’ll quote a practical example and then have your thoughts.
So for example, I wanted to memorize the Quran. And ask everyone to make dua for me before I start the journey. I end up memorizing the whole Quran. It doesn’t matter even if a single person prayed for me or not. It isnt directly related to them. But if God intends mercy on someone (and that will of course be based on merit) out of the people I asked, He will put it in their hearts to make dua for me.
Therefore, the outcome didn’t depend on their prayers. But surely because of that single event, a lot was achieved which i have already mentioned above; it was God’s wisdom in me asking them to pray in the first place. And then whoever prayed, God has intended mercy for them by letting them pray for me. And then the manifestation of all this in the Hereafter.
(Btw, this is how I have understood this concept, only by reflecting). But if you find some material on this, do share).
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It has been made very clear by Quran that the precursor for forgiveness is the realization and step taken by the person himself. Prayers by Person B for Person A could help that Person A raise his level in Jannah, provided he first qualifies for Jannah. Bonafide prayer made by Person B could also help him the same way, as a due regard given to his Bonafide Prayers. In another scenario, If the same Person A sincerely asks Person B to pray for him to stick to the right path in this world, the same prayer by Person B could also prove to be one of the factors among many as part of ‘Law of Guidance and Error’ for Person A. The possibilities can be endless indeed.
The belief in GOD requires you to not only recognize relationship with God, but also recognize your relationship with humanity, that is why ‘rights of God’ constitute one significant part and ‘rights of human beings’ constitute another significant part of Islamic Shariah. Prayer is one of the ways to express our recognition of those relationships with other human beings and have every potential to be helpful for other humans both in this world and in the hereafter, subject to certain conditions of course, as mentioned above.
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‘Person B for Person A could help that Person A raise his level in Jannah, provided he first qualifies for Jannah.’
This is what I don’t get. Person B already qualifies for jannah. Now if he already qualifies- how will person A help him? Does he qualify for the base level and not the higher levels, of so isn’t it injustice that just because person A made a dua that his levels are raised?
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No, as far as my understanding of how things work according to God’s wisdom and justice, I don’t see a reason to believe how any thing beyond ones control could lead either to his success or failure. So neither person A’s prayer nor B’s for eachother would help either of them if initially the subject did not intended it. Meaning, person B will make it to whatever level of Jannah he makes purely and solely because of his own efforts. Anything other than this would be directly opposite to what the Quran conveys, in my humble understanding.
However, lets say B made it to the highest level. And A too, made a dua for B to make it there. Only then, the prayer of A is granted because it conforms to the Divine Will. And so, both A and B get their due shares of mercy and other.
I think, the law of Allah generally found in places in the Quran and especially that of the ongoing deeds of deceased explains it all. Only and only that will benefit you for which you intended for while you were alive. So practically, using the above example we could say that B while being a sincere believer, was very kind and generous towards A during his lifetime and he already earned that level of Jannah because of that. Then A also prayed for him. So both his prayer for him and the divine will combined.
(According to my limited knowledge).
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The instances of raising of levels after one becomes eligible for Jannah can be found in Quran:
وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَاتَّبَعَتْهُمْ ذُرِّيَّتُهُمْ بِإِيمَانٍ أَلْحَقْنَا بِهِمْ ذُرِّيَّتَهُمْ وَمَا أَلَتْنَاهُمْ مِنْ عَمَلِهِمْ مِنْ شَيْءٍ كُلُّ امْرِئٍ بِمَا كَسَبَ رَهِينٌ
Those who have accepted faith, and their children too followed them with any level of faith,[10] We shall unite their children with them [in their level][11] and not even slightly diminish the reward of their deeds.[12] [This is because] each individual is in pledge for his earning.[13] (52:21)
(Excerpt from Quranic Exegesis: Javed Ahmed Ghamidi)
(Translated by Dr. Shehzad Saleem)
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[10]. This translation has been done keeping in view the fact that the word إِيمَانٍ occurs as an undefined noun.
[11]. This is a further glad tiding: if the children of people of faith are worthy of Paradise even if they merit the lowest level, the Almighty in order to complete His favour upon them will grant the children the same level as their parents and both will be united at one place.
It is evident from this that same will be the case when the parents are at some lower level because the love between the parents and the children which is instrumental in uniting the children with the parents, is present in the second case as well.
[12]. For this union, the level of the parents will not be reduced; on the contrary, the level of the children will be increased to make this union possible.
[13]. In other words, however superior of faith the parents may be, their children will only be united with them if they have become entitled to Paradise because of their faith and good deeds. This is because the soul of each person is held in pledge with the Almighty. He will be able to release himself from this pledge if he presents to God the earning of his deeds. Once this release is materialized, as far as the level he can attain in Paradise is concerned, the Almighty can increase it with His grace to any extent that He wants to. This does not negate any principle. Imām Amīn Ahsan Islāhī writes:
This verse guides us to fact that each person should try to guide his close ones to the path of faith as much as possible. Without faith, no one will succeed in the Hereafter even though he may be the progeny of a prophet or a messenger of God. However, if the offspring of someone followed the path of faith and even if this faith was of the lowest level, they will be able to join their parents who occupied a higher status in Paradise due to their faith. (Amīn Ahsan Islāhī, Tadabbur-i Qur’ān, vol. 8, 27)
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But bhai then what about a person who makes it to heaven but his parents did not? Wouldn’t the person who earned a higher level because of his parents had an unfair advantage as compared to the one who’s parents did not even make it to heaven?
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‘Intercession (Shifaat) is a phase of cleansing after it is finally decided by God that a certain person deserves His rehmat / mercy after application of Justice criteria, only then phase of intercession will happen. Therefore, there is no question of forgiveness for a rapist or a murderer in this phase.’
So again, it is of no real practical value then, is it? The fate has been decided- it is like the limbs speaking- it is just a way of presenting evidence
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How is it of no practical value?
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“So again, it is of no real practical value then, is it? The fate has been decided- it is like the limbs speaking- it is just a way of presenting evidence”
How can this has no real practical value from the perspective of the person being asked? When the Almighty addresses someone this way, it is not the same kind of asking as if an ordinary judge is asking them something. Every Muslim craves to reach to a level where Almighty addresses him/her to honour them this way. Don’t see this from the perspective of the Subject, rather, see this from the perspective of the People being honoured by God Himself. If this is not the ultimate Nobel Prize for a Believer, then I don’t know what is.
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We even pray for the Prophet Muhammad (sws) as well:
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