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  • Sacrificed Lamb By Ibrahim عليه السلام

    Ahmad Shoaib updated 2 years, 2 months ago 4 Members · 26 Replies
  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor September 25, 2020 at 6:56 pm

    Ghamidi sahab says it was a fidyah – but a fidyah for what reason?

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor September 25, 2020 at 6:59 pm

    Or was it just to make the entire world aware of this symbolism that the same way ibrahim عليه السلام was ordered to sacrifice his son into the path of God you should also do the same. I don’t get how it’s a fidyah though

  • Umer

    Moderator September 27, 2020 at 5:11 am

    The Almighty never commanded Abraham (sws) to sacrifice his son. It was Abraham (sws) who took this step thinking that the Almighty wanted this to happen. In this regard, the following points must remain in consideration:

    1. Firstly, Abraham (sws) thought that he was directed to sacrifice his son by the Almighty in a dream shown to him. For the Prophets of Allah, such dreams are a source of contact with the Almighty, and in them they are shown certain images by Him for the purpose of their education and instruction. However, as a principle, they are not to be interpreted literally; they contain realities which are depicted in symbolic form. Symbolic representation is a very subtle and powerful way of expression: facts seem veiled, yet for one who pauses to ponder, they are most evident. So what needs to be understood is that dreams of the Prophets of Allah are symbolic too. They portray a fact in figurative form in order to make it more effective to understand. Let me give you an example. You must have read the dream of the Prophet Joseph (sws) mentioned in the Qur’an. It says that he saw the sun, the moon and eleven stars bowing down to him. The interpretation of the dream offered by the Qur’an itself at the end of Surah Yusuf shows that this bowing down was a symbolism to show that his eleven brothers and father and mother would submit to his authority as the king (12:100). Similarly, more examples can be given from the Qur’an.

    2. The next point which arises is about the symbolism found in ‘human sacrifice’. In other words: ‘What does human sacrifice stand for?’ A knowledge of the ancient scriptures reveals that human sacrifice offered to God symbolizes consecrating a person in the service of Allah:

    You are to bring the Levites before the Lord, and the Israelites are to lay their hand on them. Aaron is to present the Levites before the Lord as a wave offering from the Israelites, so that they may be ready to do the work of the Lord. After the Levites lay their hands on the heads of the bulls, use the one for a sin offering to the Lord and the other for a burnt offering, to make atonement for the Levites. Have the Levites stand in front of Aaron and his sons and then present them as a wave offering to the Lord. In this way you are to set the Levites apart from the other Israelites, and the Levites will be mine. After you have purified the Levites and presented them as a wave offering, they are to come to do their work at the Tent of Meeting. They are the Israelites who are to be given wholly to me. I have taken them as my own in place of the firstborn, the first male offspring from every Israelite woman. Every firstborn male in Israel, whether man or animal, is mine. When I struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, I set them apart for myself. And I have taken the Levites in place of all the firstborn sons in Israel. (Numbers 8:10-18)

    As is evident from the underlined portion, the symbolism found in ‘human sacrifice’ is dedication of a person to the service of Allah. In other words, the Almighty actually wanted Abraham (sws) to devote Ishmael (sws) for special tasks assigned by the Almighty.

    3. Abraham (sws) in his spirit of submission to the will of God started to follow his dream in the literal sense instead of interpreting the dream; consequently, the Almighty told him that he had ‘made the dream a reality’, which of course was not required. However, this willingness to submit to a command of Allah as perceived by Abraham (sws) greatly pleased the Almighty since it was based on sincerity and a great will to do what he thought was Allah’s will.

    (Dr. Shehzad Saleem)

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor September 27, 2020 at 7:40 am

      Yes but why was it then ordered to sacrifice a lamb afterwards?

    • Umer

      Moderator September 27, 2020 at 8:29 am

      That was not a new Ibadah, Animal Sacrifice has had been in practice as a symbolic expression of sacrifice of one’s life for God since the times of Adam (AS).

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor September 27, 2020 at 8:30 am

      But was it then made a proper tradition of doing it on this day to commemorate the giving of Ismael عليه السلام in the path of God?

    • Umer

      Moderator September 27, 2020 at 8:36 am

      You can say that because of imamat given to Prophet Abraham (AS) and His religious tradition was meant to be kept alive at a global level till the end of times.

    • Abdullah AbdulRahman

      Member May 8, 2022 at 9:27 am

      But a thing that, he is giving Bible as an evidence, is there any qarina present in the Quran that dream was not meant to be interpreted literally but symbolically?

    • Umer

      Moderator May 9, 2022 at 6:04 pm

      Quran 37:102-107 makes it very clear that purpose was not actual sacrifice of Prophet Ismael (sws).

      فَلَمَّا بَلَغَ مَعَهُ السَّعْيَ قَالَ يَا بُنَيَّ إِنِّي أَرَى فِي الْمَنَامِ أَنِّي أَذْبَحُكَ فَانظُرْ مَاذَا تَرَى قَالَ يَا أَبَتِ افْعَلْ مَا تُؤْمَرُ سَتَجِدُنِي إِن شَاء اللَّهُ مِنَ الصَّابِرِينَ. فَلَمَّا أَسْلَمَا وَتَلَّهُ لِلْجَبِينِ. وَنَادَيْنَاهُ أَنْ يَا إِبْرَاهِيمُ. قَدْ صَدَّقْتَ الرُّؤْيَا إِنَّا كَذَلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُحْسِنِينَ. إِنَّ هَذَا لَهُوَ الْبَلَاء الْمُبِينُ. وَفَدَيْنَاهُ بِذِبْحٍ عَظِيمٍ. وَتَرَكْنَا عَلَيْهِ فِي الْآخِرِينَ. سَلَامٌ عَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ. كَذَلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُحْسِنِينَ. إِنَّهُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا الْمُؤْمِنِينَ. وَبَشَّرْنَاهُ بِإِسْحَقَ نَبِيًّا مِّنَ الصَّالِحِينَ. وَبَارَكْنَا عَلَيْهِ وَعَلَى إِسْحَقَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِهِمَا مُحْسِنٌ وَظَالِمٌ لِّنَفْسِهِ مُبِينٌ.

      “[That boy reached maturity.] Then when he reached the age to work about with him, Abraham said to him [one day]: “My son! [Since the past few days,] I dream that I am slaughtering you. So reflect; what is your opinion?” He said: “Father! Do as you are being directed. God willing, you will find me steadfast.” Then when both of them submitted and the father laid down his son on his forehead and We called out to him: “Abraham! You have made your dream come true,” [60] imagine how the sea of mercy must have stirred. In reality, this is how We reward those who are thorough in their deeds. Surely, this was a clear trial. [When Abraham successfully came out of it,] We ransomed Ishmael against a grand sacrifice and [gave Abraham such fame that] We left a group among the earlier generations on his ways. Peace be to Abraham. Thus do We reward those who are thorough in their deeds. Undoubtedly, he was among Our believing servants. [It was at this instance that] We gave him glad tidings of Isaac; a prophet from among righteous. And We sent Our blessings to both Ishmael and Isaac. Now there are those in their progeny who are thorough in their deeds and also those who are openly unjust to their souls”. (Quran 37:102-113)

      (Excerpt from Quranic Exegesis : Javed Ahmed Ghamidi)

      (Translated by Dr. Shehzad Saleem)

      ________________

      [60]. The Almighty had not directly bidden Abraham (sws) to sacrifice his son; He had actually shown him that he was slaughtering his son in a dream and dreams need interpretation. The interpretation of this dream was that he was required to devote his son for the service of God’s House. The dream never meant that Ishmael (sws) was required to be slaughtered. However, the upright servant of God literally followed what he saw in the dream instead of interpreting it. Here the Almighty has expressed utmost love and praise for what Abraham (sws) set out to do by saying that he had actually made the dream come true. The reason is for the manner in which this directive was given, the attitude adopted was more akin to servitude to God. The purpose was also to see whether he interpreted the dream or followed it literally. It is for this reason that it is said ahead that this was an open trial and Abraham (sws) passed it in all respects. Thus it is a fact that Abraham (sws) is an imam of not only those who reflect on the wisdom of a directive more than the directive itself but also those who instantly follow the directive before pondering on its widsom. This is because in case of a test, the latter attitude is the correct one.


    • Mohammed Zubair Alam

      Member May 10, 2022 at 4:14 am

      I have a question regarding this statement 👇🏻

      “willingness to submit to a command of Allah as perceived by Abraham (sws) greatly pleased the Almighty since it was based on sincerity and a great will to do what he thought was Allah’s will.”

      My question is :- What about the terrorists who kill people in the name of Allah?. I mean if they actually believe that killing non-muslims is a command from allah?.

      They are also ready to give their own life for the sake of allah.

      So, will Allah be pleased with them cause this also requires a great will?

    • Umer

      Moderator May 10, 2022 at 6:16 pm

      The case of a Prophet is different from the rest of human beings.

      Please refer to the following response of Ghamidi Sahab:

      Discussion 55838 • Reply 55882

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor May 8, 2022 at 9:40 am

    Two other problems with taking the dream symbolically are as follows:

    Ibrahim صلى الله عليه وسلم is not a new prophet of God- he has been one for decades up to this point. How can we say he can’t interpreted revelation even up to this point. If prophets of God cannot interpret revelation then what chance do we have?

    Saying that dreams are symbolic therefore this one is also assumes that Allah only ever gives dreams symbolically. Yes the dreams in Surah Yusuf (or visions) are symbolic but how does that necessitate that all dreams/visions ever have always been or will be symbolic?

    • Umer

      Moderator May 9, 2022 at 6:31 pm

      Who said that Prophets always have to do correct interpretation of every dream they see right away. It is a known academic fact that dreams are always prone to interpretation – they can be either symbolic or literal – but always prone to interpretation. Sometimes interpretation can be done right away (Prophet Joseph (sws) interpreting the dreams of his fellow prisoners and of the Pharaoh), sometimes it is shown to the prophet to achieve some other objective (Quran 48:27, Quran 8:43 and Quran 37:102) the depth of which unfolds in front of the Prophet at a later time, and sometimes their actual interpretation is delayed until it unravels itself in front of the Prophet (Dream of Prophet Joseph manifesting itself when he became the king). The point that must be borne in mind is that while dreams of Allah’s Messengers were an absolutely reliable means for knowing the will of the Almighty, since they were saved from the influences of Satan and His accomplices, our dreams can have no religious bearing whatsoever upon us because of our susceptibility to Satanic influences.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 10, 2022 at 3:05 am

      So prophets of God don’t actually know what God wants of them. Or are you saying ibrahim صلى الله عليه وسلم fell susceptible to shaytan أعوذ بالله من الشيطان الرجيم ?

      The references you gave are not ordering the prophet to do anything they are predictions/glad tidings.

    • Umer

      Moderator May 10, 2022 at 6:12 pm

      Please read the references of Quran I shared above once again.

      Prophets acted on those dreams and later on it became clear that why those dreams were shown to the Prophets. Prophet Muhammad (sws) went for Umrah on the basis of dream shown in 48:27 and later Hudaibiya Agreement happened. Similary. Dream shown 8:43 was with the purpose so Muslims should feel motivated. Similary, dream shown in 37:102 was later manifested in the form of annual animal sacrifice ritual of Hajj.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 10, 2022 at 6:41 pm

      These dreams were not commands like Ibrahim’s SAWS was. They were glad tidings. in the form of that you will conquer makkah

      You can’t say that the purpose of showing Ismail SAWS being slaughtered was to start annual animal sacrifice because that’s very farfetched imo

    • Umer

      Moderator May 10, 2022 at 6:50 pm

      The interpretation of this dream was that he (Prophet Abraham SWS) was required to devote his son for the service of God’s House. Annual animal sacrifice tradition was a corollary of this dream you can say.

      Prophet Muhammad (sws) also acted on this dream (48:27) and later on it resulted in Hudaibiya Treaty. Yes it was a glad-tiding also but immediate purpose has been explained in Quran itself. Prophet (sws) and Sahaba (rta) when left for mecca to perform Umra on the basis of this dream shown to Prophet Muhammad (sws), had no clue what will happen there because they were certain that they will perform Umra right then.

      Similarly, purpose of dream shown in 08:43 is not glad-tiding as per Quran, since Quran makes it very clear that it was shown so that Muslims stay motivated and steadfast to face their enemy.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 10, 2022 at 6:52 pm

      Well then using your own argument the dream will be followed and whatever comes out of it comes out of it. Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم saw umrah occurring so he went.

      So according to yourself ibrahim صلى الله عليه وسلم acted correctly

    • Umer

      Moderator May 10, 2022 at 7:59 pm

      Prophets are under protection of Allah to be always guided to the right path.

      The same happened with Prophet Abraham (sws) and Prophet Muhammad (sws) when they followed their dreams in their literal sense. Allah intervened and corrected the course accordingly and/or explained later why things unfolded in that particular way as opposed to literal interpretation of dreams.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 10, 2022 at 8:02 pm

      I don’t see the analogy. Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم was shown the vision of conquering Makkah and he did how is that the same as completely misinterpreting a dream?

    • Umer

      Moderator May 10, 2022 at 8:12 pm

      Yes it was about performing umra/hajj after conquest of Mecca but not at that time as interpreted by Prophet Muhammad (SWS) after which they all left for Umra and couldn’t perfom it.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 10, 2022 at 8:15 pm

      Can you give a reference for that because 48:27 just says that the vision has come true that they would do umrah

    • Umer

      Moderator May 10, 2022 at 8:18 pm

      When we read the verses onward, the context becomes crystal clear.

      For details, please see:

      https://www.javedahmedghamidi.org/#!/quran?chapter=48&paragraph=16&type=Ghamidi

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 10, 2022 at 8:21 pm

      If you’re referring to 48:25 I still don’t h der stand your point.

      A vision was shown that Makkah will be conquered. This was Allah’s promise to the believers and a glad tiding.

      They were stopped from entering one year and had to go back.

      But eventually they conquered makkah and Allah said he fulfilled his promise.

      Where in this whole situation did muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم misunderstand any vision and was corrected ?

    • Umer

      Moderator May 10, 2022 at 8:28 pm

      I will be repeating myself if I respond to this, I am sure your point must have some merits to it.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 10, 2022 at 8:34 pm

      Ok I’ll comment directly then:

      ‘Prophet (sws) and Sahaba (rta) when left for mecca to perform Umra on the basis of this dream shown to Prophet Muhammad (sws), had no clue what will happen there because they were certain that they will perform Umra right then.’

      What is the evidence they did this because of the vision. As far as I knew there was a treaty that allowed Muslims to do hajj and umrah every certain period of time and this is why they went not because of some vision.

      ‘Yes it was a glad-tiding also but immediate purpose has been explained in Quran itself.’

      You said glad tidings wasn’t the primary purpose- but 48:27 says itself it was a glad riding- it says ‘you will surely enter…’ not ‘you were commanded to enter’ . Further more it says صدق اللهُ رسوله الرؤيا whereas in the case of ibrahim صلى الله عليه وسلم Allah says لقد صدقت الرؤيا.

      The purpose is different and the completer of the vision is different in both cases

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