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Tawatur And Ijma Of Jews And Christians
How did their tawattur and ijma go away and was lost? Like Christians how was it even possible to make so many of them believe that the shariah was abrogated? And how was it possible for the Jews to stop praying five times a day and not even believe it was fard anymore if there was ijma and tawatur?
How is our ijma and tawatur safer than theirs?
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22 Replies
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Tawatur And Ijma Of Jews And Christians
updated 2 years, 4 months ago
6 Members
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22
Replies
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Two points:
1) You’re referring to ijma and tawatur of pre-historic times, therefore this is not that much reliable as compared to ijma and tawatur started since time of Prophet Muhammad (sws) who is a personality of known history.
2) Ijma and tawatur of Christians is not lost, everyone knows Saint Paul abrogated Sharia of Torah. There were very few followers of Jesus (AS) at the time of His death, so there is obviously no question of ijma and tawatur starting from Jesus (AS). Regarding Jews, if you want to see how 5 prayers turn into 3, please refer to Ahl-e-Tashi sect of Muslims how their 5 prayers have turned into 3. This might be helpful as well:
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Is it because we can check the books if fiqh for bidah if they somehow pop up like the adhan in newborns ear
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How is ijma and tawatur if prehistoric times any different? It is the same mass transmission. If such a big act of abrogation of all sunnah could be done and the prayer completely being lost too then how can we say it is a reliable form of transmission?
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Prehistoric ijma and tawatur is a valuable source of knowledge itself under the domain of perpetuity of knowledge, however, prehistoric ijma and tawatur cannot be traced back with accuracy as it can be done with ijma and tawatur of historic times. That is why this distinction has been made between these two timelines.
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So fiqh books are a needed to prove ijma and tawatur right?
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Fiqh books are not just random books, they are collection and inscription of the very ijma by the whole tradition of ilm.
( I am having a feeling we are about to fall back to square one
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But that’s the thing. Most fiqh books are just taking ahadith no?
Let’s see- square one is better than square zero 😂
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Yes, but with a distinction between ijma related ilm and Akbar-i-ahad related ilm.
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The Jews cry against a wall instead of praying 5 times a day. How was this bid’ah not rejected by their ijma and tawattur?
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That doesn’t matter. It doesn’t have ijma and tawattur anymore. It is only present in their fiqh books. How was this ijma and tawattur destroyed?
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Did Christians ever get this ijma and tawatuur because Isa AS only had a few followers? Because if there was ijma and tawattur, then how did St Paul come and abrogate it all. This would go against the built principle of ijma and tawattur being airtight
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For ijma and tawatur, events have to be in the light of history. The period almost until Muhammad SAW is pre-historic.
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Please watch:
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So ijma and tawattur in and in of itself is not a strong source of knowledge. We need it to be recorded on paper? Have I understood correctly?
I don’t see how this works because as Hassan sahab also says, that the fiqh books are just recording the overall sunnah that is already in the society. And the Jews had their law in their books and still have bidahs.
So let’s take one example. Salah. It seems reasonable that 1000s of muslims praying 5 times a day will keep this salah preserved. But then why, if fiqh is just a mere recording of the practice that is present in the society, do Jews just cry next to a wall as a bidah and don’t pray five times a day (in the actual 5 distinct times)?
Sorry if I’m misunderstanding
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wall for them is Qibla! They dont just cry there 🙂
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Yes but the qibla we know was actually true. Palestine was an area with the qibla. Are my comments on ijma and tawattur above correct?
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If you look at the link provided above, it compares Jewish prayer timings and details with Islamic prayers. They are the same.
It is documented by a Jewish Rabbi – Ben!
So Jewish Rabbi is telling you it used to be five – which are now combined to three – like some Shias combine them!
Wall is just Qibla – Not place to just cry for fun!
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Yes. Their crying is a bidah. And they do not pray 5 times anymore. The ijma and tawtaur has been destroyed no matter what their old books say- they do not pray 5 times anymore. They also, to my knowledge, don’t give zakah. They also drink alcohol. So many bidahs have been introduced. Why did their ijma and tawatur falter?
What about the Christians- did they ever get ijma and tawatur? Or were the followers of Christ AS too few?
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Jews was a community. Their innovation or alteration got grounds but it didn’t happen to Muslims. They didn’t remain a community. Islam spread across the globe, many nations joined it. Innovation of one muslims community could not penetrate into other. That is why no innovation could get Ijma on it.
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Sir Ammar Khan Nasir has described few things about Christianity and abrogation of Sharia in few posts,
Link of 1st post is below, you may check other in this series, it may help. Thanks
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10227171448256503&id=1366576052
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