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  • Musa عليه السلام Staff Snake

    Posted by Ahmad Shoaib on October 12, 2020 at 1:23 pm

    An-Naml – 27:10

    Arabic

    وَأَلۡقِ عَصَاكَۚ فَلَمَّا رَءَاهَا تَهۡتَزُّ كَأَنَّهَا جَآنٌّ وَلَّىٰ مُدۡبِرًا وَلَمۡ يُعَقِّبْۚ يَٰمُوسَىٰ لَا تَخَفۡ إِنِّى لَا يَخَافُ لَدَىَّ ٱلۡمُرۡسَلُونَ

    The word used here is كالجان. So it was ‘like a snake’. Does this mean that it was not an actual snake. Was the miracle just that Musa عليه السلام magic was so advanced for That time and he outsmarted the magicians even? Or was it an actual snake?

    Also the magicians ask for a specific time and meeting place as well so could this hint to it being an optical illusion that needed specific conditions?

    Or were the magicians snakes just an illusion but Musa عليه السلامs was an actual snake? Then why does it say ‘as though it was a snake’?

    Umer replied 3 years, 6 months ago 2 Members · 13 Replies
  • 13 Replies
  • Musa عليه السلام Staff Snake

    Umer updated 3 years, 6 months ago 2 Members · 13 Replies
  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor October 12, 2020 at 1:25 pm

    Al-A’raf – 7:107

    Arabic

    فَأَلۡقَىٰ عَصَاهُ فَإِذَا هِىَ ثُعۡبَانٌ مُّبِينٌ

    In this ayah it says a manifest snake. Was it just a Manifest snake compared to the magicians snakes? And in truth it was just ‘like a snake’?

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor October 12, 2020 at 1:28 pm

    The miracle would be that Musa عليه السلام, not being in the circles of these magicians or anything knew how to outsmart even their magic at a higher level

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor October 12, 2020 at 1:32 pm

    *Word used is كانها

    Al-A’raf – 7:117

    Arabic

    وَأَوۡحَيۡنَآ إِلَىٰ مُوسَىٰٓ أَنۡ أَلۡقِ عَصَاكَۖ فَإِذَا هِىَ تَلۡقَفُ مَا يَأۡفِكُونَ

    This ayah as well. The snake of Musa عليه السلام ‘consumed what they were falsifying’. So it would lead us to believe that what he did was disprove the magicians. They were probably saying look we have powers from the gods we can do magic! But Musa عليه السلام exposed their fake magic by showing it was just an illusion and that even he could do the same thing but at an even higher level from God taught knowledge.

    So can we really say it turned into an actual snake?

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor October 12, 2020 at 1:34 pm

      So basically Musa عليه السلام said

      ‘this is no power from the gods! Look, I can do the same thing and even better!’

      But I don’t think we can say it was an actual snake because of the vocabulary used in surah 27

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor October 12, 2020 at 1:35 pm

    Reasoning is from here around 38 minutes

  • Umer

    Moderator October 12, 2020 at 3:09 pm

    These videos are very helpful in understanding the miracles and how they distinguish a Prophet from the rest of the people:

    Discussion 16063 • Reply 16069

  • Umer

    Moderator October 12, 2020 at 3:21 pm

    Please also see this explanation of Ghamidi Sahab from 17:46 to 36:57

    https://youtu.be/LUbg3QpPfRM?t=1066

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor October 12, 2020 at 8:22 pm

      Then how do we explain 27:10 saying ‘as if’

      And is it correct to say that even though the word ‘ilqa’ was also used for Musa عليه السلام it is still possible that it was an actual miracle and not just and illusion?

    • Umer

      Moderator October 13, 2020 at 4:03 pm

      There is no reason to deny it as a Miracle since Quran has itself presented these as Burhan and Clear Ayaat of Allah. We are seeing them or trying to justify them from the perspective of material sciences while these miracles belong to Nafsi side of the aisle, for which confession of top cadre of magicians is itself a prove that it was something of a divine nature which broke the laws of nature.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor October 13, 2020 at 4:03 pm

      Sure sure yes I agree. But how do we interpret the word ‘as if it were a snake’ then?

    • Umer

      Moderator October 13, 2020 at 4:21 pm

      28:31 and 27:10 are events of first meeting of Musa (AS) in the mountain of tur, in the middle of night where there was complete darkness, that is why these verses are talking from perspective of Moses (AS), he wasn’t sure what happened to the cane but seeing from the movement of cane, and to the best of his visibility, it appeared to him as if it was a snake and he decided to run. Considering the whole situation and ambience around Moses (AS), it makes sense that it appeared to Him as if it was a snake and he didn’t spend any time to verify it and started to run.

      But in verse 7:107, when it was in open public and in day light where everyone could see it, the words used are ثُعْبَانٌ مُّبِينٌ meaning a clear snake without any doubt, thus removing every iota of doubt that was created because of words ‘as if’ used in other places.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor October 13, 2020 at 4:22 pm

      Well there was a bright fire but we could still say that Musa عليه السلام just glanced at it and his flight or fight mechanism made him make an assumption and run away from even the chance of it being a snake

    • Umer

      Moderator October 13, 2020 at 4:23 pm

      Quite possible.

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