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  • Logical Arguments For Shirk

    Posted by Ahmad Shoaib on October 24, 2020 at 6:33 am

    The Quran says that if there was more than one master of the worlds there would be chaos. Human nature accepts this fact. But human nature also sees that there are exceptions. Sometimes there are leaders that work harmoniously together. Also when two leaders work together the fruits they produce are magnificent. So when we see this universe why don’t we think that there must have been a few wonderful minds that brought this into existence?

    What is the answer to this line of reasoning?

    Is it simply that this is your human conjecture- God himself has told you he is one- that’s the end of the discussion.

    Faisal Haroon replied 3 years, 4 months ago 3 Members · 11 Replies
  • 11 Replies
  • Logical Arguments For Shirk

  • Sheharbano Ali

    Member October 24, 2020 at 11:35 am

    But let’s say that we do consider this for a while just for argument’s sake. It still is going to come to the same question/s when you go by that logic the Quran itself presents (explained by Hamza Tzortzis in the video you posted earlier).

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor October 24, 2020 at 11:36 am

      That would not apply. Instead of one primary force there were just many. These are divine beings which don’t hold the same implications right?

    • Sheharbano Ali

      Member October 24, 2020 at 11:38 am

      How would that not apply? There has to be One divine being. How could two or more divine beings be the First/Necessary Cause?

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor October 24, 2020 at 11:40 am

      Doesn’t have to be the first cause. Why does the first cause have to be divine? If we use kalaam we can deduce it has to be all powerful then it doesn’t NEED anyone else. إن شاء الله I wish to ask Ghamidi sahab tomorrow about how to prove that God doesn’t lie and how polytheism is wrong without kalaam because from his views it seems that he doesn’t think kalaam is needed

    • Sheharbano Ali

      Member October 24, 2020 at 11:48 am

      If we go by that logic, then why only stopping at two?

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor October 24, 2020 at 11:48 am

      There is no stopping

    • Sheharbano Ali

      Member October 24, 2020 at 11:54 am

      Exactly. But then my inner/fitrat/daakhli ehsaas and my outside mushaahida tells me otherwise. On top of that, if revelation also comes to confirm that using pretty logical arguments and reasoning, then why do i have to swim around in conjecture?

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor October 24, 2020 at 11:55 am

      But Ghamidi sahab says someone can come to tawhid from fitrah and shirk is impossible- it has no logical reasoning

    • Sheharbano Ali

      Member October 24, 2020 at 12:04 pm

      And besides, “Doesn’t have to be the first cause. Why does the first cause have to be divine? If we use kalaam we can deduce it has to be all powerful then it doesn’t NEED anyone else.”

      If it isn’t the first cause, then how is it All Powerful? And All-Everything?

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor October 24, 2020 at 12:05 pm

      If we dive into kalaam then the first cause has to be omnipotent.

      But Ghamidi sahab says we don’t need this

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator October 24, 2020 at 12:41 pm

    This discussion already took place here. Nothing has changed since.

    Discussion 30396

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