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  • Establishing Only One Non Contingent Creator

    Posted by Ahmad Shoaib on November 24, 2020 at 9:51 am

    In the q&a session kn the 22/11/20 Ghamidi sahab answered my question of ‘why does the creator of the universe have to be non contingent (not mohtaj)?’ – he said that if he were contingent then he would have a creator and it would be infinite regress.

    But Ghamidi sahab also says that the base problem of kalaam is that they strike similitudes to God when it is impossible to understand him with examples. So wouldn’t this line of reasoning that entails that God has a process of cause and effect that is dependent on contingency in his being come under this making examples of what we have not been told?

    Ahmad Shoaib replied 3 years, 3 months ago 2 Members · 6 Replies
  • 6 Replies
  • Establishing Only One Non Contingent Creator

  • Ahsan

    Moderator November 24, 2020 at 12:23 pm

    If I understand your question correctly then

    If I ask you to define God, you wont give example you will define by attributes as there is nothing like it. We cannot comprehend the being. I think Ghamdi Sb meant the same.

    God is the cause of every thing as per Quran. How God effect things? we dont know as we havent been told. However, we can say since God is all powerful and all knowlegable, it can create any thing whenever it want.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor November 24, 2020 at 12:24 pm

      Where in the Quran does it say this?

      And this relates to the being of God. I don’t know how Ghamidi sahab would prove ilatul ilal without ‘kalaam’

    • Ahsan

      Moderator November 24, 2020 at 12:42 pm

      Quran 42:11, 112:4 says there is nothing like it.
      Indeed Kalam Argument is the best argument to silence atheist because it philosophically proves God as necessary being without any begining or cause or precedator. So far athiests are unable to negate the single premise. Moreover,There is empirical evidence in favor of Kalam argument.
      But in my opinion, it fails to answer why God need to create human or send prophets for guidance or the concept of day of judgment in Islam seems meaningless. May be thats why there have been resistance to accept Kalam argument as the best argument.

      I will recommend you to watch webinars on this website. Hopefully you will get better understanding.
      https://www.gotostage.com/channel/sapienceinstitute

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor November 24, 2020 at 4:11 pm

      These are twisting of God’s words to make them overly philosophic.

      However I do find kalaam working on inferential knowledge- it seems as though Ghamidi sahab may have a point about God not having any examples that we can ascribe to him- and kalaam works fully on inferential logic.

      We should not care about atheists- the Quran’s method of argument is enough- we do not need a non Islamic source to prove God.

      So my question still stands

    • Ahsan

      Moderator November 24, 2020 at 11:37 pm

      i didnt understand ur comment about twisting of words

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor November 25, 2020 at 5:26 am

      Kalaam takes Quranic words and does not interpret them in the context or way they were revealed.

      They use it as a foundation of some deep philosophy which was never used by Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم himself

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