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  • Reliability Of Ijma And Tawatur

    Posted by Ahmad Shoaib on December 26, 2020 at 3:31 pm

    I recently had a discussion and the brother argued that it’s impossible for there not to be changes in practices of religion over many years. For example cultures would add things to the prayer and then it would be solidified over many years like it had been done to other prophets’ teachings and in every culture on the planet. So we would need some textual backup to reaffirm and protect the practices

    Faisal Haroon replied 3 years, 2 months ago 4 Members · 11 Replies
  • 11 Replies
  • Reliability Of Ijma And Tawatur

    Faisal Haroon updated 3 years, 2 months ago 4 Members · 11 Replies
  • Saba Madani

    Member December 26, 2020 at 6:41 pm

    I feel like it’s impossible for there not to be any changes over the years too. I think that’s why Allah Subhanahu wa ta’la preserved our deen by backing it up with written stuff in the form of Seerah and ahadeeth etc. Just Ijma and tawatur without written backup is not reliable

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator December 26, 2020 at 11:31 pm

    You should ask your friend to present examples. There are no modifications to the part of religion (Quran and sunnah) that has been transmitted to us through ijma and tawatur. Any questions that arise on the reliability of ijma and tawatur are actually based on incomplete understanding of the concept. I think that rather than coming up with our own assumptions, it would be more beneficial should we understand the concept and try to poke holes in it.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor December 26, 2020 at 11:33 pm

      They say things like whether blood breaks wudu was not clear so ahadith had to reaffirm it. And that the only reason there are no changes is because ahadith preserved the deen

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator December 26, 2020 at 11:33 pm
  • Shahid Nazir

    Member December 27, 2020 at 4:47 am

    I think ijma should be stated in Ahadith, if something gets the status of ijma, and that thing is not in quran or Ahadith then this ijma is questionable or can be rejected, for example the covering of head, there is almost ijma on head covering but i think ghamidi sahib rejected it because it has no basis in Ahadith or quran, similarly the case of beard

  • Saba Madani

    Member December 27, 2020 at 9:43 am

    And who is to decide what is or isn’t in the Qur’ān because the same ayah can be interpreted differently by different people

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator December 27, 2020 at 12:25 pm

    Ijma and tawatur is completely independent of any written record. In fact written record of established historical facts depends upon ijma and tawatur. In a written record only one person is penning down established history, whereas ijma and tawatur is backed by such a huge number of people, generation after generation, that they can’t conceivably collude or conspire.

    Ijma and tawatur is a method of transmission of knowledge. Interpretation of knowledge is a completely different thing. The two must be understood separately.

    • Shahid Nazir

      Member December 28, 2020 at 5:39 am

      So when ghamidi sahib says that sunnah is transmitted through ijma, so why he rejected the head covering of women even it is transmitted through ijma, so why ghamidi sahib says that there is no written record in favour of head covering in Ahadith and quran, why he didn’t accept it as sunnah because of ijma on it

    • Saba Madani

      Member December 28, 2020 at 6:40 am

      As Faisal sb said “in a written record only one person is penning down established history” and once it’s penned down it’s secured, and people can go back and cross check it every time they need to know if something is correct or not. That’s what all of us are doing including the scholars. If we leave it and depend on just ijma and tawatur changes come as the years go by

  • Shahid Nazir

    Member December 28, 2020 at 5:51 am

    Also ghamidi sahib says that ijma is not the source of Deen but only Quran and sunnah is source of deen, but when it comes to sunnah he says it transmitted through ijma, so isn’t this contradicts with statement that ijma is not a source of Deen

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator December 28, 2020 at 9:34 am

    The word ‘ijma’ is used in two different meanings. Once we understand that then there is no contradiction.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5ukOvsJ7F4

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