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Islam And The West – Dr. Jordan Peterson
Dr. Jordan Peterson is a well-known and highly influential Western conservative scholar and intellectual. In the following video, he outlines his issues with Islam:
Basically, he highlights two issues:
1. The perceived failure in Islam to separate church from state, and
2. His perception that our prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was a warlord, whereas prophet Jesus (pbuh) was not a warlord.
I believe that Ghamidi Sb is well-equipped to address these issues (and he may already have).
First, what are the appropriate responses to the issues that Dr. Peterson has raised?
Second, what are the most relevant resources or lectures from Ghamidi Sb that address those issues?
Finally, I would really really like to see a discussion between Dr. Peterson and Ghamidi Sb. If the organizers can make something like that happen, it’ll be a great service to the contemporary society.
Thank you.
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12 Replies
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Islam And The West – Dr. Jordan Peterson
updated 3 years, 3 months ago
5 Members
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12
Replies
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I think there are some muslim scholars who have already challenged him for a debate but he has refused so far.
Ghamidi sb focus is on betterment of south asian people then debating westerners. Its a far stretch to expect that.Debate is done with people who are well versed in topic. Jordon peterson has no commendable knowledge of history or islam. So there is no point.
If you want to understand how to respond question posed by him, you can open separate topic for each question and hoepfully it will be answered there.
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Basically there is problem with most of the Muslim scholars and the problem is that in today’s world they have not proved the full preservation of the Qur’an properly . And when schools of thoughts like farahi sahab try to prove it trough establish history which is dependent upon Consensus and Tawatur then further problem arises regarding beliefs of Majority of Muslims.
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Regarding the third point, I did not mean a debate; rather, a civilized dialogue, discussion, or conversation. And that is just a personal wish. Perhaps one of Ghamidi Sb’s students could one day tackle the philosophical and religious questions of the present-day West, pointed towards Islam. Perhaps they already have.
I was more interested in the first two questions, and hoping that the community members could share answers if they had found them.
I would also be grateful if one of Ghamidi Sb’s students or organizers could kindly get those answered in one of the live sessions, or by other means.
P.S. Ghamidi Sb also seem to have studied the Western philosophy. He cited Des Cartes and Kant in one of the videos. I’m speaking only from my limited knowledge.
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As I said you can open new topic for each of them where these topics can be discussed in details. Two question in one thread is not allowed.
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Sounds good. Thanks.
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Bro Adeel, I guess the best way to correct any wrong concepts of the social media influencers is to share their points in this forum and based on your learnings from the discussions here make comments on their posts in the social media for the benefit of their followers.
This would be far better than asking for a debate or dialogue between them and sir Ghamidi.
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As far as prophet Muhammad SAW being a warlord, such allegations are not new, however they’re baseless and meaningless. There are lots of other people, even in the western academia, who have refuted such allegations. For example:
Understanding Arabs, 5th Edition
Margaret Nydell
Muhammad fought fewer than ten battles in his lifetime, resulting in barely 1,000 casualties on both sides.
Please see the following discussions to understand the reasons why people were killed at all:
Also keep in mind that warlords do not create 1500 years of legacies with billions of followers around the world. To keep things in perspective, it should also be noted that the Christian crusades between the years 1095 and 1291, an estimated 9 million people were killed (Short History of Christianity by John Robertson).
Ghamidi sahab’s focus is to thoroughly research and teach Islam in the light of the Quran and the sunnah. He doesn’t have the time to refute or debate such baseless claims.
Separation of church and state is not a problem with Islam but with the Muslims, depending upon whether or not you even consider it as a problem since many don’t (even Christians). A governing body is a need of every human society. From the Islamic perspective, what kind of government a society decides to form is left up to the people of each society. The only guidance we find from God in that regard is that the decision should be made democratically on the principle of amra-hum shura baynahum. Please see the following to understand the political sharia:
As for your point about the western philosophy, yes Ghamidi sahab is very well versed in it. In fact I have been very lucky to directly learn from him on this very subject.
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Thank you for the detailed response. I appreciate you sharing those resources. And indeed, you are lucky to have that learning opportunity.
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Islam has already separated state and church by limiting states role only to stopping crimes, collecting taxes and administrating Friday prayers.
Intervening in people’s faith and beliefs is none of state’s business. This is quite aligned with the western ‘nation state’ concept.
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we should not allign ourselves with western nation state. We should strive for what Allah has said.
In the process if it allign with some other idea, it not a problem. we should focus on pleasing Allah than westerners or any 1 else. Technically, if a practicing muslim come in power in muslim majority country then you cannot draw secular laws as no law can pass against QUranic law in that state. So I dont agree that in muslim majority country under muslim leadership, it can be separated.
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I agree with you. I should have said the western nation state concept is quite aligned with islamic principles of governance —rather than other way round. Thank you for correcting me.
As far as the example of a practicing muslim becoming a ruler of a muslim majority country is concerned, i would say when any part of the religion is enacted as a law, it can be referred to as the law of the land or “maroof o munkar” but it’s no longer a part of the religion. For an act to be religious, it has to be “embraced”rather than “enforced” and must be acted upon with free consent rather than for the sake of compliance with social requirements.
Based on the above distinction between embracement and enforcement, one can say that an islamic state has nothing to do with religion even if it has a muslim ruler and a muslim majority.
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Thats true.
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