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  • Quran 2:56: Death Or Unconsciousness?

    Posted by Ahmad Shoaib on April 6, 2021 at 11:01 pm

    ‘In the Arabic language, the word ‘مَوْت’ also means ‘sleep’ and ‘unconsciousness’ if some indication to this exists. The way it is used here and the instance it has been used at in clearly shows that refers to their state of unconsciousness. Although the Israelites did not deserve to be revived from this state because of their arrogance, it is evident from 7:155 that they were forgiven for this crime when Moses (sws) earnestly pleaded with the Almighty to forgive them.’
    What is the evidence that موت is used in this way and what are the indications in the ayah that it doesn’t mean death? If anything بعثناكم should imply it was an actual death

    اشهل صادق replied 3 years, 1 month ago 3 Members · 13 Replies
  • 13 Replies
  • Quran 2:56: Death Or Unconsciousness?

    اشهل صادق updated 3 years, 1 month ago 3 Members · 13 Replies
  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar April 12, 2021 at 9:37 am

    It depends on understanding of language and its use and styles. For nations, we too use such words. for example a man who regain his strength after losing it we say, he came back from the dead. We know it never happened the who nation of Bani Israel or their army died and resurrect, if it happened, it must have been mentioned in their books, so when language allows, we go for its metaphorical meaning.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor April 12, 2021 at 9:38 am

      If their books doesn’t mention it that doesn’t mean it’s not true surely.

      If it was metaphorical shouldn’t it have been فأخرجناكم من حالكم instead of فبعثناكم

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar April 14, 2021 at 6:36 am

    There is no rule for not using certain words metaphorically.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar April 14, 2021 at 6:37 am

    If that were a real incident the jews could have not missed it to record. It is so very extraordinary.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor April 14, 2021 at 10:45 am

      They dont have a record of ibrahim عليه السلام building the kaaba.

      It just seems very random for mawt to be used to mean sleep

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor June 20, 2021 at 3:51 am

      Further comments?

  • اشهل صادق

    Member June 20, 2021 at 4:46 am

    Peace!

    Regarding your question on language, we literally pray الحمد لله الذي أحياني بعد ما أماتني و اليه النشور. We use the word احياء here.

    Regarding indications from the Ayah, if Allah had chosen death as a punishment for those people, it seems improbable that He would have resurrected them when Moses asked for their forgiveness. Once God decides death as a punishment, it seems way more likely that that is final and irreversible. Because death means that God has decided to end the time He has provided you for growth and improvement. It means an end to the test and challenge of this world. It seems like any other punishment may be temporary but death as a punishment is final. What do you say?

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor June 20, 2021 at 6:05 am

      وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

      Yes but this mawt is said in the context of sleep.

      They were revived because Musa صلى الله عليه وسلم asked for forgiveness. If they were unconscious then they would’ve woke up anyway? I don’t get the dynamics.

      Being fully dead snd then revived is a better way of reminding them to be grateful.

    • اشهل صادق

      Member June 20, 2021 at 6:14 am

      Unconscious, as in, in a coma. I think I get what you mean regarding the thankfulness part, but it just doesn’t seem from a Quranic point of view that God gives you real death as a punishment and then brings you back to life. Death means the end of the test. You probably witness an entirely different stage of existence. The test of faith is over once you’ve been revived because, then, you know for certain that death isn’t the end. Check out the following Ayah:

      (وَحَرَ ٰ⁠مٌ عَلَىٰ قَرۡیَةٍ أَهۡلَكۡنَـٰهَاۤ أَنَّهُمۡ لَا یَرۡجِعُونَ)

      [Surah Al-Anbiya’ 95]

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor June 20, 2021 at 6:15 am

      The verse you sent seems to be one of itmamul hujjah.

      We know that the bani Israel had a special case with God. They had the mountain raised over them and even after they were killed for the golden calf they were forgiven (where usually they would die and then go to hell).

      I see no issue with taking the normal widespread meaning of mawt here

    • اشهل صادق

      Member June 20, 2021 at 7:52 am

      Peace!

      First of all, yes, Bani Israel had a special case with God. Whether that includes being brought back to life, we don’t know. However, the chances, in my humble opinion, are pretty low. Even with this special case, they themselves were being tested. Being brought back to life nullifies one of the most important parts of Islam: ايمان بالغيب. The Jews used to deny another major aspect of Islam: دين, claiming that they would only abide in Hell for a small period at max. You know that God denied this. I don’t see why God would keep one important aspect and abandon another. Keep in mind that the Sunnah of Allah doesn’t change.

      Secondly, I have not studied the case of the mountain in depth. However, as of yet, I don’t take that to mean that God physically uprooted the mountain, raised it over them, took the oath and placed it back again. لا اكراه في الدين. These may be my ignorant thoughts.

      Thirdly, I have no idea where you got the forgiveness after shirk part. If you can refer that to me, I can study it. I don’t remember that happening, sorry.

      Now, I don’t think that موت absolutely cannot be taken to mean death here. In other words, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with it 😅, but look, claiming that an event was supernatural requires evidence. The words do not point to any supernatural event as موت is commonly used as a metaphor in the Arabic language. Furthermore, if death was meant here, I think Allah would have reminded the Jews of this event that this was an Ayah from Him, which, to my knowledge, He doesn’t. In view of the available information, I think it is unfair to say that death is meant here.

      What do you say?

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor June 20, 2021 at 1:13 pm

      Here’s the ayah:

      An-Nisa’ – 4:153

      Arabic

      يَسۡـَٔلُكَ أَهۡلُ ٱلۡكِتَٰبِ أَن تُنَزِّلَ عَلَيۡهِمۡ كِتَٰبًا مِّنَ ٱلسَّمَآءِۚ فَقَدۡ سَأَلُواْ مُوسَىٰٓ أَكۡبَرَ مِن ذَٰلِكَ فَقَالُوٓاْ أَرِنَا ٱللَّهَ جَهۡرَةً فَأَخَذَتۡهُمُ ٱلصَّٰعِقَةُ بِظُلۡمِهِمْۚ ثُمَّ ٱتَّخَذُواْ ٱلۡعِجۡلَ مِنۢ بَعۡدِ مَا جَآءَتۡهُمُ ٱلۡبَيِّنَٰتُ فَعَفَوۡنَا عَن ذَٰلِكَۚ وَءَاتَيۡنَا مُوسَىٰ سُلۡطَٰنًا مُّبِينًا

      He does remind them with it- he mentions it to them in surah Baqarah in which he reminds his favours upon him.

      As for the mountain uprooting, I have heard this is also present in Jewish sources.

      As for supernatural events, they happened before for bani Israel so why not after? The bible even seems to mention that when Musa صلى الله عليه وسلم came back from the mount with the tablets, his face was glowing. This is probably in the chapter after exodus or during it

    • اشهل صادق

      Member June 21, 2021 at 4:22 am

      Peace!

      Regarding the uprooting of the mountain, I have checked the Quran, it does confirm that God raised the mountain over them ( in Surah al-A’raf). And yes, you are right, the Bible mentions it too (Exodus 17, if I remember correctly).

      Regarding the forgiveness of the polytheists, I will have to think further, but we know forgiveness is only possible if they repented. If they repented sincerely, I won’t find it a special case if they were forgiven.

      Regarding supernatural events, the one you mentioned was of a prophet and we know of miracles that God showed through them. But you were right about the raising of the mountain (as of my current knowledge), which proves at least one supernatural event, I think.

      So if you mean قبض روح by death, as of yet, I will agree with you.

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