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  • Where And How Prophet Muhammad Received Information On How To Perform Prayer?

    Posted by Nadeem Minhas on April 12, 2021 at 10:52 pm

    If number of Rakahs and what to specifically recite in a prayer is not in the Quran and if prayer was not being perform exactly this way during the time of prophet Muhammad, where and how did he learn how to perform prayer? Is it possible that he decided on his own how to perform prayer, how many Rakahs in each prayer and what to recite at each step of a prayer?

    Faisal Haroon replied 3 years, 2 months ago 7 Members · 30 Replies
  • 30 Replies
  • Where And How Prophet Muhammad Received Information On How To Perform Prayer?

    Faisal Haroon updated 3 years, 2 months ago 7 Members · 30 Replies
  • Yasar Moin

    Member April 12, 2021 at 11:16 pm

    Jibrael ne humare huzur ko namaz sikhayi, 1 din awwal time par pacho namaz sikhayi aur agle din akhiri time par pacho namaz sikhayi

  • Munnoo Khan

    Member April 12, 2021 at 11:26 pm

    There is no confusion that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) knew how to pray, because the prayer was enjoined upon the Muslims from the beginning of Islam. Hence,Narrated Abdullah bin Abbas: Abu Sufyan told me that Heraclius said to him, When I inquired you what he (i.e. Muhammad) ordered you, you replied that he ordered you to establish the prayer, to speak the truth, to be chaste, to keep promises and to pay back trusts. Then Heraclius added, These are really the qualities of a prophet.. Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2681).

    Ibn Rajab said: This indicates that prayer was prescribed from the beginning of Prophethood, but the five daily prayers were not enjoined before the Israa’, and there is no difference of scholarly opinion concerning that.

    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member April 13, 2021 at 8:17 am

      Thank you brother Munnoo. Was Salat being performed exactly this way before? Same rakahs, rakoohs, sajdas and contents to recite?

  • Yasar Moin

    Member April 12, 2021 at 11:29 pm

    Bilkul aapne sahi kaha ki namaz adam PBUH ke zamane se hi chali aa rahi hai, lekin time ke saath saath isme bohot badlao aa gaye, aur ye apni asl shakal me nahi rahi, isi liye Jibrael ne aakar 2 din humare huzur ko namaz sikhayi

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator April 13, 2021 at 12:13 am

    Salat is a sunnah of all prophets, starting from Adam AS, just like Saum. Zakat, Hajj, etc. Please see Ghamidi sahab’s book Meezan for the history of salat in the light of the Quran, hadeeth, and the Bible. It is also proven that Prophet Muhammad SAW used to make salat even before he was appointed as a prophet, since it was an established practice in the Abrahamic faith which the Quresh were already aware of. Bible also mentions the same five daily salat. Prophet Muhammad re-established salat with whatever modifications that were required. As a prophet of God, it’s immaterial how he figured out what those modifications were because in the matters of religion he only acted in accordance with God’s will.

  • Nadeem Minhas

    Member April 13, 2021 at 5:46 am

    Thank you all for your response.

    I am aware that 5 prayers were being performed long before the prophet and prophet Muhammad prayed even before the prophethood.

    I am also of the belief that it doesn’t matter how many rakah to perform, how many rakuh or sajdahs or what specifically to recite during prayer. Whatever and however our prophet came up with these things do not matter.

    I was just curious as a general knowledge if he decided upon these things himself or Allah taught him. One of the brother said the angel Jibrael taught him.

    Please confirm if this is correct.

  • Yasar Moin

    Member April 13, 2021 at 5:48 am

    Jii bilkul Jibrael ne hi 2 din me humare nabi ko namaz sikhayi thi, ye khud ghamidi sahab ka bayan hai YouTube par, link share karta hu insha’Allah

    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member April 13, 2021 at 8:15 am

      Thank you Yasar for the information. It is not in Quran that Salat was taught by the angel? What is the source of this information? Is the source reliable?

    • Munnoo Khan

      Member April 13, 2021 at 8:29 am

      Faisal Haroon wrote:

      “since it was an established practice in the Abrahamic faith which the Quresh were already aware of. Bible also mentions the same five daily salat. Prophet Muhammad re-established salat with whatever modifications that were required. As a prophet of God, it’s immaterial how he figured out what those modifications were because in the matters of religion he only acted in accordance with God’s will.

    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member April 13, 2021 at 8:32 am

      Brother Munnoo, I wholeheartedly already agreed to the statement you referred. I am just asking Yasar for his source of info.

  • Yasar Moin

    Member April 13, 2021 at 8:39 am

    Nadeem sahab, this is a statement made by javed ahmad ghamidi sahab in one of his video on YouTube but he didn’t gave any reference of quran or hadith.

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor April 13, 2021 at 9:23 pm

    This is very interesting. What is the evidence that the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم had any authority to teach something other than the Quran?

    Because it was obviously not an abrahamic practice to recite the fatiha in the first ruku for salah.

    So where is:

    The authority for the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم to teach something extraneous to the Quran

    Or where are:

    The details of salah as we pray today?

    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member April 13, 2021 at 10:40 pm

      This is off topic Ahmad and this question has already been answered. There is a direct verse in Quran designation prophet as a teacher and no one else can be a better teacher than him?

      On your second statement, the prayer was already being performed in a similar method. Also Allah does not specify exactly how many rakah to perform and what exactly to recite at each position in prayer. Allah left it open. So if the prophet decided by himself to recite certain things at various positions in prayer than it is his personal choice. Then who is a better example for us to follow than our prophet. So, I believe we started reciting what prophet chose to recite and who else could be a better person to follow than our prophet… even in the matters of personal choice.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor April 13, 2021 at 10:41 pm

      If it was his personal choice then we should be allowed to pray in other ways

    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member April 13, 2021 at 10:50 pm

      I think performing more or less rakahs and reciting other things would be perfectly fine. I think for unity only a few recitations, especially in congregational prayer are kept the same.

      Regardless of what I stated above, I personally would not dare pray differently from how prophet performed prayer. He is the best example and the best teacher to follow. I would not dare supersede his jugement.

    • Munnoo Khan

      Member April 13, 2021 at 11:49 pm

      Once it is clear that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) sometimes said or did things based on his own opinion, then the revelation would confirm it, either by saying nothing about it or approving of it, and on rare occasions the revelation would correct it.

      Since there is no way we can be corrected by Wahi, hence we are not allowed to make any changes in the way we worship Allah.

    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member April 14, 2021 at 5:49 am

      I agree with brother Munnoo. Also, according to Quran, it is Fard on us to follow the prophet as long as it is confirmed the message is authentic. Sunnah is considered most authentic. In my opinion if Hadith could be confirmed to be almost 100 percent true, complete and properly understood within context, following them would be fard too.

  • Mohammad Yaseen

    Contributor April 14, 2021 at 5:33 am

    Please read the whole chapter about prayer in mizan for clarifications.

    The Islamic Sharī‘ah of Worship Rituals / The Prayer / History of the Prayer!/mizan/5aa6a4315e891e8f44a45788?chapterNo=4&subChapterNo=0&subChsecNo=0&lang=en

  • Mohammad Yaseen

    Contributor April 14, 2021 at 5:40 am
  • Mohammad Yaseen

    Contributor April 14, 2021 at 5:43 am
  • Nadeem Minhas

    Member April 14, 2021 at 5:54 am

    Great info brother Yaseen. I will go over it soon. The discussion is focussed on where and how prophet determined details of prayer that were not prevalent before prophethood; such as Rakahs and some recitation.

  • Umer

    Moderator April 14, 2021 at 2:33 pm

    Prophet Muhammad (Sws) is the only source of religion now till the day of judgement, not the Quran in isolation. It is Prophet Muhammad (sws) who disseminated religion to us in the form of Quran and Sunnah and they are given with divine authority and are both transmitted to us through the most credible modes of transmission i.e. ijma and tawatur. Therefore, whether it be Salah or any other Sunnah, it has the same authority as Quran as they’re both based on divine revelations.

    For further details, please refer to the video below from 5:35 to 10:31

    Alternative Link: ilm-o-Hikmat 16-08-2020

  • Mohammad Yaseen

    Contributor April 14, 2021 at 6:21 pm

    An anecdotal example.

    This is merely a discussion and not at all an argument. This is written with outmost respect.

    My patient asked me for an MRI so that we can find a cause to his pain problem. I told him there are 2 possible diagnoses for your pain and they are both benign and the treatment is the same for both of them. I asked, out of curiosity, why do you want a test. He said I want to know.

    To this I said, you want to spend hundreds of dollars for your “psychological want to know” which will change nothing! I told him we can do it if things become worrisome.

    He understood my rationale and never asked for the MRI again.

    The logic hidden in the example is that the patient didn’t trust the doctor and wanted a supposedly unbiased test with tangible pictures to satisfy the desire to know. It also shows the overlooking of the result that changes nothing.

    Certain questions are vital and certain are just a waste of mind matter. Our prophet once prayed for the protection from useless knowledge.

    So when we ask a question, we should first question the question and be aware of the cause of the question and the possible outcomes. Then we should ask what do I do with the answer.

    I understand the need to know how the prophet prayed so we can pray the same.

    For some reason, I remember the story of the cow. What kind of cow, what age of cow, what color of cow etc..

    The principle is that we believe in the prophet and we know how he prayed and that suffices for me like I trust my doctor. I don’t want to know which school he went to and what research he did and what subject he studied and how he came up with the treatment he is giving me. I trust the process.

    This is not a treatise about not asking rather it is an advice to ask the right questions so that we can move forward or better ourselves and our understanding.

    Stay blessed, always

    Written with love and respect for all.

  • Nadeem Minhas

    Member April 14, 2021 at 7:37 pm

    Brother Yaseen. You brought up an excellent point. We need to keep that in mind. I believe your advice is excellent in most cases, but sometimes there is an urge to know only to strengthen our faith and increase our knowlege. Otherwise once a person has faith in Allah there is no need for questioning except to make sure the message or instructions a person is receiving is authentic and properly understood.

    Sometimes there is a hidden question within the question and answer to that question may be very valuable for someone’s faith or practice of religion.

    So, could it be the hidden question is…

    1. Is the Sunnah for prayer we practice, authentic? If Quran, holy books and Sunnah of previous prophets is the only source of authentic religious knowkedge, then is it possible that any Sunnah outside of those sources be correct? What could be the source of such information? Should we trust and follow such info? In this case the question was if number of Rakahs and certain compulsory recition in prayer an authentic Sunnah?

    • Mohammad Yaseen

      Contributor April 14, 2021 at 8:21 pm


      The answers are in the book, the link I shared. Please take some time to study it. It will help alleviate many questions.

      Stay blessed, always

  • Munnoo Khan

    Member April 14, 2021 at 8:04 pm

    Jizak-Allah brother Muhammad Yaseen for a very logical and reasonable answer. The problem with social media is that you have no idea who is behind a nickname and fake picture? What their intentions are? Is someone a Jew or a Christian posing himself as a very pious Muslim. Is there any intention to ask questions which may create doubts in the mind of less informed readers.

    Countries like USA and Israel are investing millions of dollars to defame Islam. They are not leaving any opportunity unturned to dispassionate and malignant (‎بدظن) common Muslim from religion. Majority of current Muslim sects are hostile to Ghamidi Sahib’s approach to religion, Islam. I would be cautious with them as well because they would raise questions which may pose a negative message to masses. First they may start a debate, for example, according to Qur’an the meat of Pig is Haram, why can’t we eat the Pig’s bone marrow, fat or gelatine? Than they would go in their circle and spread those discussion with some spices like, “look Ghamidi “Fitna” is trying to make Pig’s bone marrow, fat or pig’s gelatine.

    I would request admin / moderators of this forum to keep an eye on such element and do not promote such debates which clearly shows the ill-intentions of the member. I would say just delete such Irresponsible questions as soon as possible.

    I understand that we should not be creating hurdles for those who want to learn about religion but at the same time we should be vigilant. After some questions moderators can see trend of questions and from that it should not be difficult to put those members on watch list. Moderators can also use their discretion to delete any such irresponsible questions and may connect with them via private messaging just to avoid any chance of genuine member being disheartened , due to asking a silly question.

    • Mohammad Yaseen

      Contributor April 14, 2021 at 8:22 pm


      This is an interesting take on the questions.

      Stay blessed, always.

    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member April 14, 2021 at 8:35 pm

      Brother Munnoo, did you find any such attempt in this thread? I have observed couple of such attempts in this Forum and I agree with you suggestion.

    • Munnoo Khan

      Member April 14, 2021 at 8:44 pm

      Brother Nadeem,

      It was a general comment and not towards any member. I am a new member and hence can not comment on any members. The point I want to make that moderators should be vigilant and don’t let anybody exploit this good forum.

      I apologize, if you felt otherwise.

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator April 14, 2021 at 9:58 pm

    Yaseen sahab thank you for a great advise. I completely agree that we should filter out questions in our own heads to determine whether or not there’s any value in answering a given question. It saves our own selves a lot of time and energy and helps us to stay focused.

    That said, I have a few points to make. It is not normal for us to share this kind of information in discussion threads, however, keeping in mind how this particular discussion has turned out, I think that it’s important to address these issues here.

    First of all, I see no ill intention in this question. Nadeem sahab is a very valued member of the Ask Ghamidi community and through my previous interactions with him, I know that he’s a genuine student of religion.

    Secondly, according to Ask Ghamidi Code of Conduct, only relevant responses should be posted. If anyone has any suggestions for the moderators, the correct way to get those across is by filling out the contact form (link below). Before posting, please make sure that your response directly addresses the original question or a follow up.

    Lastly, the advise for the moderators shared above is well received, however, I want you to know that this platform was built with a purpose and a plan, and we’re already doing everything to ensure a healthy community right in line with our plan. It’s not our policy to delete questions unless they violate Ask Ghamidi Terms of Use or the Code of Conduct, and never will be. We also have built in community based moderation whereby any community member can report a post (click on ellipses in top right area of a post to reveal a menu). When a certain number of people report a post, that post is automatically removed until it can be personally reviewed by me.

    As a side note, I would like to add that right in line with Ghamidi sahab’s teachings, we neither consider any question ill intended by default, nor fear people steering us or others away from religion just by asking questions. If we understand our own religion on the basis of sound evidence and propagate the same, such fears are irrelevant and baseless. As far as protecting young/immature minds is concerned, I truly believe that we can’t protect them through censorship; instead we have to be able to provide them with appropriate platforms and address their concerns head on. Ask Ghamidi is a humble effort in that direction.

    Following are links to our Terms of User and Code of Conduct. If you have not reviewed them yet, this might be a great time to do so.

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    Since I as well as Umer Qureshi sahab have responded to the original question, this discussion will now be closed. If you have any remaining follow up questions, please don’t hesitate to create a new discussion.

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