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  • One Ummat One Eid, Ramadan And One Laylati Alqadr

     Nadeem Minhas updated 1 month, 1 week ago 3 Members · 14 Posts
  • Munnoo Khan

    Member April 13, 2021 at 10:01 am

    Qur’an mentions the end time of Sahur (سحری) as follows:

    And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread [of night] (Qur’an 2:187)

    ‎کھاؤ پیو یہاں تک کہ صبح کی سفید دھاری (رات کی) سیاہ دھاری سے الگ نظر آنے لگے۔

    ‎(سورة البقرة, Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #187)

    With the advancement of science today nobody bothers to go out to see whether white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread or not. We just trust the printed time table which is just a prediction based on scientific calculations. And we use our watches to follow that time table. Nobody ever bother to challenge these calculations.

    Regarding start and end of Ramadan we find following narration:

    Narrated Abdullah binUmar: Allah’s Apostle said, The month (can be) 29 nights (i.e. days), and do not fast till you see the moon, and if the sky is overcast, then complete Sha’ban as thirty days.

    Sahih Bukhari – 1907

    Again, with advancement in Science, scientists can calculate and create a time table for start of every Muslim months including Ramadan in advance.

    Now, read the translation of Surah Al-Qadr, 97:1-5

    1. Indeed, We sent the Qur’an down during the Night of Decree.

    2. And what can make you know what is the Night of Decree?

    3. The Night of Decree is better than a thousand months.

    4. The angels and the Spirit descend therein by permission of their Lord for every matter.

    5. Peace it is until the emergence of dawn

    From above Surah, it is very clear that there is only one night which is called “laylati alqadr”.

    Question: Based on above information why can’t Muslim agree on a scientific Muslim calendar, same as we all agree on end time of Sahur (سحری) using our watches. For moon sighting calculations a country, for example, Saudi Arabia may be decided for the basis of calculations.

    This way whole Muslim world can have Eid, Ramadan and laylati alqadr on set particular days. Specially nobody will miss the “laylati alqadr” which is only one night.

    Imagine during the night of “laylati alqadr” the angels are descending on our planet, with the earth rotation, they would cover the whole earth in one night.

  • Munnoo Khan

    Member April 14, 2021 at 2:41 am

    There may be two options:

    1. One Islamic calendars for the whole world based on latest technology.

    2. If it is necessary to sight the moon than one Ramadan and one Eid for the whole Muslim world as one authentic witness of a Muslim should be sufficient for the whole Muslim world.

    Any comments?

  • Ahsan Jalal

    Moderator April 14, 2021 at 4:01 am

    Ghamidi sb is of opinion that scientific method can be used to make calendars.

    I am giving my own opinion in this regard.

    Unity of ummah donot mean unity of eid or ramazan. Actual unity mean what Prophet mohammad saw has said see (https://sunnah.com/muslim:2586d).

    Note: I am rookie in astronomy but I will try to give answer.

    Firstly, Verse 2:185 says to start and end fasting upon sighting of moon. I am in strong favor we should use modern technology and astronomical models to sight moon.

    let first understand meaning of birth of new moon.
    Astronomically, birth of new moon occurs when earth, moon and sun, are approximately in a straight line. due to this reason we cannot see moon as no light can be reflected. Hence no visibility at all. This event can occur at any moment of day in terms of our location. I mean that its possible that new moon occur at night in pakistan but in US its morning.

    Let assume the new moon occurs at 11pm Universal Time (Sunday), then at that moment Pakistan time is 5am (Monday). Now tell me, how can England and Pakistan start the month on same day in this case?

    About moon visibility, there are several methods to calculate visibility of moons in different region. However, these models has been proven to deviate from reality. One of this studies were done by Pakistani meterological department. They observed that there were deviation in prediction due to several reason. You can find that report by visiting their web.

    Because of these reasons, whole muslim community cannot have single day for starting ramazan.

    I am of opinion that there is no issue in celebrating Eid on different days even with in Pakistan based on local sighting. Because it is a non issue which donot create any issue. Historically, Prophet Mohammad saw and Sahaba has endorsed celebration of Eid based on local sightings. However, Govt can make procedure (including scientific models and visually looking at moon) so that every one with in state celebrate on one day.

    • Munnoo Khan

      Member April 14, 2021 at 8:18 am

      The case I made above is that as soon as the first moon is sighted anywhere in the world, that witness should be enough for all Muslims living in any part of the world. That is, as soon as they reach Maghrib (sunset) in their area they should consider moon sighted based on moon sighting witness given earlier in other part of the world.

      For example, if first moon sighted in Australia than after 5 hours their would be sunset in Pakistan. So Pakistanis should start new month based on witness from Australia that the moon was sighted there. Similarly, in UK the sunset would be after 9 hours. They can use the same witness from Australia to announce start of new month in their country. In the same manner, New York, USA which has a 14 hours time difference with Australia. They can also announce start of new month as soon as they have sunset based on the same witness from Australia. During Prophet Muhammad’s pbuh times it was not possible due to lack of technology and means of communication but now it is quite possible.

  • Munnoo Khan

    Member April 14, 2021 at 8:26 am

    Regarding verse 2:185, I have already mentioned in my opening post that With the advancement of science today nobody bothers to go out to see whether white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread or not, although according to 2:187 we are told to do so. We just trust the printed time table which is just a prediction based on scientific calculations. And we use our watches to follow that time table. Nobody ever bother to challenge these calculations.

    • Nadeem Minhas

      Member April 14, 2021 at 10:34 am

      Brother Munnoo, there are plenty to challenge those calculation, but it is not possible for all. Others rely on few.

      Since Quran is for all times, Allah could only state the basic rule that Arabs of that time could follow too. People followed whatever science they knew at that time. Length of shadow, phases of moon, etc. Now we can follow more advanced science as long as it meets the the requirements Allah stated. The requirement is not “seeing” white thread of light, but the white thread of light “being” there. If seeing is required, not everyone can see every day. How did people determine start of the day if it was cloudy?

    • Munnoo Khan

      Member April 14, 2021 at 1:02 pm

      The case I made above is that as soon as the first moon is sighted anywhere in the world, that witness should be enough for all Muslims living in any part of the world. That is, as soon as they reach Maghrib (sunset) in their area they should consider moon sighted based on moon sighting witness given earlier in other part of the world.

      For example, if first moon sighted in Australia than after 5 hours their would be sunset in Pakistan. So Pakistanis should start new month based on witness from Australia that the moon was sighted there. Similarly, in UK the sunset would be after 9 hours. They can use the same witness from Australia to announce start of new month in their country. In the same manner, New York, USA which has a 14 hours time difference with Australia. They can also announce start of new month as soon as they have sunset based on the same witness from Australia. During Prophet Muhammad’s pbuh times it was not possible due to lack of technology and means of communication but now it is quite possible

  • Ahsan Jalal

    Moderator April 14, 2021 at 1:12 pm

    As NAdeem Sb said, there is model which can give 100% accuracy. There are several reasons for it.
    Secondly, give me any model for visibility which says Australia will see the moon first. For next 5 year, Australia will never sight the moon first. So there can never be same day. If Saudia start ramazan on monday, US will start on sunday while Australia will do it on tuesday. As ramazan cannot begin in the middle of day time.

    I agree to the point that lack of communication in old time was significant hurdle.
    As I said ealier, this is a non issue. Actual unity donot come from celebrating on same day but to understand and feel the pain of other muslims and help them out. South Asian muslims generally follow same day for starting and ending of lunar months but what sort of unity do we have among them?
    Focus on real issues than non issues.

    • Munnoo Khan

      Member April 14, 2021 at 1:17 pm

      It was just to explain the issue by giving example of Australia. The case I made above is that as soon as the first moon is sighted anywhere in the world, that witness should be enough for all Muslims living in any part of the world. That is, as soon as they reach Maghrib (sunset) in their area they should consider moon sighted based on moon sighting witness given earlier in other part of the world.

  • Munnoo Khan

    Member April 14, 2021 at 1:28 pm

    This video was made from a satellite showing spin of earth and showing how sunset time moves from one country to other:
    https://youtu.be/oOxFoeXiiSA

  • Ahsan Jalal

    Moderator April 14, 2021 at 1:31 pm

    Yes its possible to do it on paper. But in reality it will be difficult to implement as there is no unified govt of muslims.
    Ghamidi sb has said that we can unify under leadership of Saudia Arabia as they guardian of Hijaz,, however, certain factions of muslim will not follow it.

    • Munnoo Khan

      Member April 14, 2021 at 1:38 pm

      You are right, first plans are made on paper and then sometimes it may take centuries to execute that plan. If you do not draw anything in paper than it will never be implemented.

      The key is creating awareness, it may take few decades or longer.

  • Ahsan Jalal

    Moderator May 7, 2021 at 5:00 am

    Ghamidi Sb replied to similar question in following video
    https://fb.watch/5kOg4gHVbr/

  • Nadeem Minhas

    Member May 7, 2021 at 11:37 am

    Just wondering how Lailatul Kadar can be celebrated on one day, since we do not know which day it is.

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