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  • Who Is The Quran Addressing?

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor May 8, 2021 at 12:30 pm

    Why isn’t the default position of interpreting the Quran that it is speaking to only those Arabs? Of course if I write a book and address some Arabs then I’m not intending for it to be applied the same way 1400 years later? For example the Quran says to prepare the steeds of war and kill the disbelievers, this is clearly for the 7th century. So why do we not say that the commands to pray or fast are not just for that time as well? Why do we assume that these commandments are for us as well when they were revealed to and are talking to only a specific people?

    The conclusion would be that we just have to uphold the universal truths such a monotheism and ethics. As for the other things, they can change with society and culture

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor May 8, 2021 at 12:59 pm

    So for example when it says that prayer is fard on the believers. It’s talking about THOSE believers in the 7th century. Who is to say that it is fard upon us?

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor May 8, 2021 at 1:10 pm

    Because it is different when Allah says a fact vs when he gives a command.

    If Allah says ‘God does not love the transgressors’, that is different to ‘oh you who believe, establish the prayer’

    The fact is that God doesn’t love the transgressors. The command is that the believers have to pray. And it’s for the believers that he’s talking to- it’s not a universal fact

  • Umer

    Moderator May 8, 2021 at 1:35 pm

    How is ibadah and ways to perform ritual isn’t a universal truth? it is my innate need to pray to the Almighty once I start believing in one. And there is possibly no way of me knowing how to do that unless I am told the right way and right time by the Almighty Himself.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 8, 2021 at 1:37 pm

      Because it is a command. Not a fact.

      If I say to someone you should wear a jacket, it’s going to rain tomorrow-

      Someone else could wear a jacket if he doesn’t want to get wet. But he could also take an umbrella.

      So for this people, a specific method was taken- for others- they can pray how they want

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 8, 2021 at 1:40 pm

      Also the ayah says ‘kitaaban mawqutaa’. This could be taken to mean that this is the time that prayer was scheduled and that is when they can attend certain prayers

    • Umer

      Moderator May 8, 2021 at 1:41 pm

      So if Quran says believe in one God, then that should also be command according to your logic and not a fact?

      If I know for sure with my eyes that it is going to be the same ordinary rain, I can choose either jacket or an umbrella. But of the rain is not visible to my eyes, then I will follow the way to prevent it from someone who is better knowing than me.

      Secondly, we should not ignore another source of religion i.e. Sunnah, whose ijma and tawatur also indicates this practice.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 8, 2021 at 1:42 pm

      When Allah says he is one it is a fact. It is not a command.

      For something like prayer nowhere does it say if you don’t pray you’re going to hell.

    • Umer

      Moderator May 8, 2021 at 1:46 pm

      Just like existence of God, praying to that God is also an innate need and a universal truth by extension. So when God tells a way to pray, why use our own imagination to come up with new methods of praying? When we know that this is the way God wanted them to pray, so this should’ve been the way God wanted us to pray and the same practice has been transmitted to us through Sunnah.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 8, 2021 at 1:47 pm

      Why would we assume God wants us to pray to him the same way he instructed other people to pray to him?

      Because the whole Quran is referring to a specific people and giving them commands- not us it seems

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 8, 2021 at 1:54 pm

      For example let’s see the people in the north pole area. Prayer for them is impossible because sometimes the sun never sets.

      How can the 5 times prayer especially maghrib be for them if it never even happens for them?

      It only makes sense that God sets certain rituals for certain people according to their society and lifestyle

    • Umer

      Moderator May 8, 2021 at 2:02 pm

      Praying is an integral part of believe in God, it is against the very human nature to believe in God and not feel the need to pray to Him. Praying is an extension of the ‘Believe in one God’ fact, separating the two would be illogical and against the human nature itself.

      You cannot take an exception and use it as an argument against the general principles. In most of the world, prayer timings can be followed with ease and in case an exception arises, guidance available in Quran and Sunnah would be used for exceptions, and if not, ijtihaad would be used. But nullifying a directive of religion based on an exception is against rationality.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 8, 2021 at 2:17 pm

      We can make all the philosophy we want but you still need to prove where God told us- me- Ahmad- in 2021, that I have to pray the same way that Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم was told to pray.

      Also if the prayer was for the whole world and every human then the exception of Iceland is very important.

      Even in the uk which is not very far north, fasting is 18 hours long. Is that what God intended? That’s clearly not how long the sahabah fasted for.

      So fasting goes from a gentle reminder to a massive impediment

    • Umer

      Moderator May 8, 2021 at 2:33 pm

      It is through Sunnah initiated by the Prophet (sws) transmitted to us through tawatur of centuries.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 8, 2021 at 4:06 pm

      This doesn’t answer my first paragraph

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 8, 2021 at 4:09 pm

      God speaks through the Quran. Why did he not say that people afterwards have to pray?

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor May 9, 2021 at 9:54 am

    If Churchill gave a speech, telling every British person to kill every German man they say- that doesn’t mean that, Me, a British person living a few decades later has to kill every German person.

    Why is the distinction of certain rulings being time specific made when it comes to surah tawbah, but not when it comes to salah being fard etc?

    • Umer

      Moderator May 9, 2021 at 2:20 pm

      Your premise is flawed. God speaks through the Prophet and Prophet gave us religion through both Quran and Sunnah. Unless we agree on the premise, the rest of the discussion will simply be a waste of time.

      Now if Churchill existed let’s say 1000 years ago and asked his followers to kill every German, to understand the intent behind his ruling, we have to carefully analyze his words (if received to us through credible means) and then see the action of his followers and later generations. Had there been a tawatur in their actions which can be traced back to him to get is a reasonable assurance, then the ruling was meant to be perpetual in nature, otherwise, the ruling would be time-specific. In addition to this, one has to analyze any other sources of credible information available like established history of that time or any other source for that matter, if available.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor May 9, 2021 at 5:23 pm

      So please tell me what resources I can consult to analyse to know if God intended for salah to be for that time or all mankind.

      If sunnah says to pray and that it is fard but the Quran doesn’t say that it’s fard then what do we do?

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