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  • Starting Off Salah With Rafa Yadayn

  • Umer

    Moderator June 2, 2021 at 8:05 pm

    Ibadis are remnants of Khawarij movement who as far as I know, abrogated my Sunnah practices later on to protect their political interests. It’s no surprise if they don’t do that and also its better to first ask the relevant group as to why they don’t do it without bringing into question the ijma and tawatur. The way Ismaelis changed Salah later at some stage, Ibadis must’ve made some amendments later at some stage.

  • Ahmad Shoaib

    Contributor June 4, 2021 at 11:57 am

    But apparently no madhab thinks starting rafa yadayn is fard. So how is there ijma on this?

    • Umer

      Moderator June 4, 2021 at 11:19 pm

      I can request Hassan Sahab if you can share some credible sources in this regard from Ahnaf or others.

  • Hassan Sajjad

    Member June 4, 2021 at 3:33 pm

    There are multiple hadees in sahih bukhari and muslim where the prophet starts the salah with the first rafaye dain with taking the fingers under the ear lobe.

  • Hassan Sajjad

    Member June 5, 2021 at 12:07 am
  • Malik Faisal Aslam

    Member June 5, 2021 at 1:05 am

    It is a compulsory ritual in Ghamidi’s discourse. The main question to ponder however is that – is the Sunnah same thing to other traditional scholars as in Ghamidi’s discourse – the answer is NO. According to Ghamidi sb, The Sunnah is an independent source of religion. Just as the Qur’an is not validated through khabar-e wahid, the Sunnah is also not validated through it. Those acts that the Prophet (sws) never wanted to constitute them as Sunnah cannot be considered sunnah in Ghamidi’s discourse. For example the Prophet (sws) taught utterances and supplications which are said in the qa‘dah. Sitting in qa’dah is Sunnah but the supplications are not coz he never made them mandatory. If the Prophet has constituted something as Sunnah, it becomes Deen (compulsory act).

    Now, we know everyone agrees that a prayer contains two parts of its rituals (i) optional (ii) mandatory

    Raising hands with Takbeer e Tehrima is Sunnah for all scholars – with no distinction. Here is the tricky part. For all, it is Sunnah but for all the Sunnah is not a common element. For Ghamidi it becomes a compulsory act however, among others a huge number of jurists consider it as compulsory too (being Sunnat e Moa’kada) but for few it becomes Amal e Mustahab.

    Finally, those who do not consider it as mandatory are mistaken (according to others) due to misconception of a tradition (Akhbar e Ahad). Where it was mentioned that during the prayer raising hands (rafa yadain) is optional. They considered this ruling included raising hands in the beginning of prayer too. However, a majority believes that raising hands at the beginning were understood and constituted as Sunnah (Sunnat e Moa’kada) and that was not mentioned in this khabar e wahid. The Khabar e Wahid actually mentions raising hands during the prayer i.e. while going to raku or performing sajda etc.

  • Malik Faisal Aslam

    Member June 5, 2021 at 1:06 am

    نماز کی ابتدا میں تکبیر تحریمہ کے ساتھ رفع یدین کا اعمالِ نماز کی شریعت میں ہونا تو سب علما وفقہا کے یہاں متفق علیہ ہے. غامدی صاحب بھی اسے سنت ہی قرار دیتے ہیں تمام علما و فقہا اسے سنت ہی قرار دیتے ہیں البتہ اس کے درجۂ حکم کے تعیین میں اختلاف ہوسکتا ہے

    کہ یہ لازمی سنت ہے یا پسندیدہ عمل۔

    اس وجہ سے اگر آپ فقہا سے پوچھیں گے تو اُن کے ہاں یہ راے مل جاتی ہے کہ ایسا کرلینے کا مطلب یہ ہے کہ آپ نے ایک مستحب عمل کردیا ہے

    لیکن یہ بات کہ تکبیر تحریمہ کے ساتھ عدم رفع یدین نماز میں معمول کی موکد سنت ہے یہ کسی کا علمی موقف نہیں ہے یعنی اس کا ترک امور لازم میں نہیں. ہاں البتہ بعض علماء کے نزدیک جیسا کہ عرض کیا اس کو لوازم میں شمار نہیں کرتے.

    اگر آج کوئی گروہ اس پر معمول کے ساتھ کاربند ہوجائے تو یہی کہا جائے گا کہ یہ خلافِ سنت ہے۔ توجہ رہے کہ خلاف سنت اسی صورت میں ھو گا جب معمول کے ساتھ اس پر کاربند ھو.

    منہج فراہی میں تو مجمع علیہ سنت سے ثابت شریعت کے اعمالِ نماز کو عام مستحبات سے الگ بیان کیا جاتا ہے اور غالبا یہی وہ بات ہے جو غامدی صاحب کے موقف کی بابت یہاں کچھ احباب کے لئے مغالطے کا باعث بن رہی ہے.

    ایک مجمع علیہ سنت متواترہ اور شریعت ہے دوسرے اخبار آحاد سے موصول ہونے والی چیزیں ہیں. ان میں تفریق اس مغالطے کو رفع کر دیتی ہے.

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