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Ghamidi Sahab Tafsir 61:6
John 14:26 says that the helper is the Holy Spirit so how does Ghamidi sahab say it is Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم ?
And John 14:30 literally says that the devil will be ruling over the world- hence he has no hold/authority/regard in Jesus صلى الله عليه وسلم . So how does Ghamidi sahab say that this is Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم ?
Where is the mention of Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم ‘s name Ahmad in the bible? The Quran says it was mentioned so it’s a bit of a cop out to just say ‘they interpolated/adulterated the text’ because if it says it in the Quran surely the bible of the time (the same one that we have today it seems) should’ve mentioned it. Otherwise it’s just an empty claim.
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Ghamidi Sahab Tafsir 61:6
updated 2 years, 11 months ago
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Also the same chapter John 24 says:
28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
And Ghamidi sahab denies the second coming but the chapter says that Jesus صلى الله عليه وسلم is coming back
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Peace!
Regarding the second coming of Jesus in the Gospels, Ghamidi Sahab has presented his view. It is in more detail in Mathew and it is a metaphor for عذاب after اتمام الحجة.
https://web.mit.edu/jywang/www/cef/Bible/NIV/NIV_Bible/MATT+24.html
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Yes I know of this but that is a secondary point to the main argument. Here it really doesn’t seem tk be a metaphor for that
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Even if we take the Gospels to be preserved, we should look take the more detailed description as the core. Don’t you think? The problem, in my opinion, are English translations. You can speak Urdu, so, you may notice how these languages: Urdu and Arabic, are more literary. And Hebrew and Aramaic are sister languages to Arabic. So, they are probably literary too. While English has become rigid due to it becoming the language of science. That is what causes these problems, I think. That and the fact that all these are translations of translations and remember, translations already carry the impressions if the translator.
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I mean that’s just an open ended claim to be honest. You would have to prove it means the thing Ghamidi sahab says
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Of course, but we have to take the Quran to be the مهيمن. And do you really think that if Jesus was coming back, he would give such a vague reference? And just at one place, too.
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To be honest this is not an argument for the second coming. My question is in the first post
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Peace!
My two cents are that the Holy Spirit may mean Gabriel and the Spirit of Truth may mean الصادق والأمين عليه السلام.
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Then what does it mean to be sent in Jesus’ name?
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Where does it say that?
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John 14:26
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I am not claiming to be an expert here, but, in my opinion, these are language problems. Do you get what I mean?
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I don’t see how it is the problem in this case. look at it from a neutral perspective or even a Christian perspective
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In my name may mean “in my place,” metaphorically. What do you say?
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I don’t see how that would work. When we say bismillah we mean in the name of Allah- with his name we start. I don’t think it means that we are replacing Allah. Again try to look at it from a neutral perspective to see what the bible is saying first. Rather than trying to cram another perspective into the bible
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I agree with your stance about being neutral wholeheartedly. So, If I’m not being neutral, keep reminding me. In the meanwhile, check out the attached photograph. “In my name” could mean “in my stead.”
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Yes- so Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم didn’t come in Jesus’ name. He came in/with Allah’s name
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Sorry, I didn’t get what you mean. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me?
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Disagreeing. If Jesus صلى الله عليه وسلم said the comforter will come in my name- Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم did not seem to come in his name
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In my name also means “in my behalf,” according to the dictionary. Can you please elaborate why Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم could not speak on behalf of Jesus. I seem to be missing your point. Don’t all prophets speak on behalf of each other as they carry the same message?
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Fair enough- when you say it this way it makes sense
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Please keep asking questions. You may feel like I’m just trying random answers, but I like to propose “maybe” answers as I think if we keep on questioning these answers, we do get somewhere.
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👍
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The Quran does not claim that the name Ahmad was mentioned in the Bible, just that Jesus told his addressees this name.
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Well it’s kind of arbitrary to say Jesus صلى الله عليه وسلم said the name of no one knows he said the name
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It’s not an empty claim even if people were not able to record the name. Remember that the these 4 synoptic Gospels were written decades after Jesus passed away. The text is definitely adultered, even according to Bible scholars. Even if it was not, it was the life and message of Jesus being written from memory. The name may have been forgotten. Do you know Paul from Blogging Theology, by the way?
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Yes I know of him. Does he have any videos on this?
What is the purpose of the claim if no one knows he said it.
The argument is that isa صلى الله عليه وسلم prophesied Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم . How do we know he prophesied him? The book that Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم says so….
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You have probably read the Gospels. Can you think of anyone else who sits in the frame Jesus painted for this person who is to come? I mean, come on. Who else was called the Spirit of Truth in the entire history of the world?
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According to John 14:26 it’s the holy spirit
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True. But like I pointed out, this could mean Gabriel and he is indeed the one who taught us everything — just not directly.
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I mean this makes sense but the Quran is claiming that isa صلى الله عليه وسلم mentioned Ahmad the name. So I’m still having a hard time understanding why we don’t find this in the gospels. Wouldn’t a very simple Christian response to this ayah be ‘where does Jesus صلى الله عليه وسلم say this?’
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Peace!
Ok, so while I was searching, I came across a number of opinions:
1) The Quran doesn’t say that the name Ahmad is mentioned in the Gospel. While this is true, you are right to point out that one may inquire about the Christain lack of knowledge about this name.
2) Professor Edip Yuksel, in his tafseer, writes that what was mentioned by Jesus was not a name but an attribute and brings some good points to the debate like why didn’t the Christians name their sons Ahmad. I couldn’t understand how the ayah could mean Ahmad as an attribute but it could mean something along the lines of:
Even his name is praised so much
Like we say, “danger is my middle name.”
3) Others, like Muhammad Asad hold that Paracletus (comforter) is a tampered version of Periclytos (admired one) which is quite similar to Ahmad
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However, with regards to the questions raised by Professor Yuksel and the ones raised by you, I faintly remember Ghamidi Sahab saying that the Jews or the Christains did use to do that, they used to name their children Ahmad. To confirm, I will start a new thread ان شاء الله. In the meantime, let me know what you think.
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This is one of the English translations of John 14:26:
But the Counselor, the Ruach HaKodesh, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything; that is, he will remind you of everything I have said to you.
روح القدس like in the Quran.
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Makes sense. Any ideas on my latest message above also?
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Let me research a little and I’ll see what I can get at. If you find anything, do let me know.
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👌
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Many Muslim writers have argued that “another Paraclete” (John 14:16)—the first being Jesus—refers to Muhammad. This claim is based on Quran 61:6.
“And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, “O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad.” But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, “This is obvious magic.”
— Sahih International
A few Muslim commentators, such as David Benjamin Keldani (1928), have argued the theory that the original Koine Greek used was periklytos, meaning famed, illustrious, or praiseworthy, rendered in Arabic as Aḥmad (another name of Muhammad), and that this was substituted by Christians with parakletos. There are currently no known Greek manuscripts with this reading (all extant Greek manuscripts read παράκλητος parakletos), although the earliest manuscript evidence available is from the 4th century.
Regarding what the original Greek term was, according to A. Guthrie and E. F. F. Bishop:
“Early translators knew nothing about the surmised reading of periklutos for parakletos, and its possible rendering as Ahmad …. Periklutos does not come into the picture as far as Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hisham are concerned. The deception is not theirs. The opportunity to introduce Ahmad was not accepted—though it is highly improbable that they were aware of it being a possible rendering of Periklutos. It would have clinched the argument to have followed the Johannine references with a Quranic quotation.”
“Once more, if we omit the phrase, ‘bearing the name Ahmad,’ and regard Muhammad as still drawing lessons from previous history, the dubious passage might refer to what happened at Pentecost, and other incidents recorded in the earlier chapters of the Acts. With the absence of any claim on this passage either by Ibn Ishaq or Ibn Hisham, may we go further and suggest that the two Arabic words rendered by Dr. Bell, ‘bearing the name Ahmad,’ are an interpolation to be dated after the death of Muhammad.”
Paraclete (Greek: παράκλητος, Latin: paracletus) means advocate or helper. In Christianity, the term “paraclete” most commonly refers to the Holy Spirit.
Etymology: Paraclete comes from the Koine Greek word παράκλητος (paráklētos). A combination of “para” (beside/alongside) and “kalein” (to call), the word first appears in the Bible in John 14:16. John Muddiman and John Barton further explain the development of the meaning of this term;
The word parakletos is a verbal adjective, often used of one called to help in a lawcourt. In the Jewish tradition the word was transcribed with Hebrew letters and used for angels, prophets, and the just as advocates before God’s court. The word also acquired the meaning of ‘one who consoles’ (cf. Job 16:2, Theodotion’s and Aquila’s translations; the LXX has the correct word parakletores). It is probably wrong to explain the Johannine parakletos on the basis of only one religious background. The word is filled with a complex meaning: the Spirit replaces Jesus, is an advocate and a witness, but also consoles the disciples.
In Classical Greek
— Demosthenes, On the False Embassy 19:1
A Greek–English Lexicon, cites also the example of a slave summoned as a help.
παρά-κλητος, ον,
A. called to one’s aid, in a court of justice : as Subst., legal assistant, advocate, D.19.1, Lycurg. Fr.102, etc. 2. summoned, “δοῦλοι” D.C.46.20, cf. BGU601.12 (ii A.D.).
II. intercessor, Ph.2.520 : hence in NT, Παράκλητος, of the Holy Spirit, Ev.Jo.14.16, cf. 1 Ep.Jo.2.1.
In Judaism
Philo speaks several times of “paraclete” advocates primarily in the sense of human intercessors.
The word later went from Hellenistic Jewish writing into rabbinic literature.
The word is not used in the Septuagint, the word “comforters” being different in the Book of Job. Other words are used to translate the Hebrew word מְנַחֵם mnaḥḥēm “comforter” and מליץ יושר mliṣ yosher.
In the Christian New Testament, paraclete appears only in the Johannine texts, and it is used only on three occasions: Gospel of John 14:16 and 14:17, and First Epistle of John chapter 2, verse 1.
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, to be with you forever. This is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, because he abides with you, and he will be in you.
— John 14:16-17
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
— 1 John 2:1
In John 14:16-17, “paraclete” is Παράκλητον and “spirit” is Πνεῦμα (Pneuma), meaning “breath”. “Pneuma” appears over 250 times in the Christian New Testament, and is the word used to refer to the Holy Spirit, i.e., the Spirit of God. As a result of the immediate explanation in John 14:17, the Paraclete in John 14:16 is considered to be the Holy Sprit.
The New Testament Studies, a peer-reviewed academic journal published by Cambridge University Press, describes a “striking similarity” between the defined attributes of what the Paraclete is, and is to do, and what the outcome of Christian prophecy has spoken to, explaining the Paraclete as the post-Passover gift of the Holy Spirit. “The Paraclete represents the Spirit as manifested in a particular way, as a pneumatic Christian speech charisma. Every verb describing the ministry of the Paraclete is directly related to his speech function.”
The early church identified the Paraclete as the Holy Spirit. In first-century Jewish and Christian understanding, the presence of the Holy Spirit is to claim rebirth of prophecy.
During his period as a hermit in the mid-12th century, Peter Abelard dedicated his chapel to the Paraclete because “I had come there as a fugitive and, in the depths of my despair, was granted some comfort by the grace of God.”
Scholarly interpretations
John 14:16 quotes Jesus as saying “another Paraclete” will come to help his disciples, implying, according to Lawrence Lutkemeyer, that Jesus is the first and primary Paraclete. In 1 John 2:1 Jesus himself is called “paraclete”.
Raymond Brown (1970), supported by George Johnston (2005), also says that the “another Paraclete” of John 14:16 is in many ways another Jesus, the presence of Jesus after Jesus ascends to his Father.
The Gospel of Matthew twice uses the passive form of the corresponding verb παρακαλῶ, in 2:18 and 5:4. In both instances, the context is of mourning, and the meaning of the verb is “to be comforted”.
Paraclete first appearing in gospel
Here is the context of the passage in John 14:15-14:27 with the translation of Paraclete as Advocate shown in bold:
15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
Conclusion: Aside from Arch Angel Gabriel, It is possible That the Holy Spirit/Comforter mentioned in the Gospel of John is a Prophecy for Apostle Paul as Jesus was addressing his disciples in John’s Gospel. His primary audience were his 12 disciples. After Jesus’s death, Saint Paul met Jesus’s disciples as he recalls these events in his letters in the New Testament. As Prophesized in John 15:26, Paul testified about Jesus, his visions in which he met Jesus where he was told by Jesus to spread his Gospel to the Gentiles and than He proclaimed this message to Jesus’s disciples as well as they were alive during that Time.
If we remove the context of the John’s Gospel than it is possible that this Spirit of Truth is Muhammad(saw) as he is the only Prophet after Jesus to testify for him.
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