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  • Utilitarianism And Lying

    Posted by Ahmad Shoaib on July 27, 2021 at 7:19 pm

    I had a discussion with someone who said that if someone asks to marry them but wants to marry a virgin is it ok for them to lie if they know that it would forego the pain of a missed opportunity and a lifetime of happiness. Same with adultery- they said they should lie about where they were and cover it up.

    Where from the Quran is this notion negated that lying is inherently bad rather than based on the situation?

    Tahir Khan replied 2 years, 9 months ago 3 Members · 4 Replies
  • 4 Replies
  • Utilitarianism And Lying

  • Umer

    Moderator July 31, 2021 at 1:45 pm

    The question needs more elaboration, but based on study of human fitrat, lying in inheretly bad.

    • Ahmad Shoaib

      Contributor July 31, 2021 at 1:48 pm

      The person said that he thinks if he lied about being a virgin then his partner would have a life of happiness. And if he told the truth then the partner would be missing a whole life of happiness for something he deems unimportant and he thinks it does not affect her in any way.

      The fitrat thing is kind of a cop out. Where does the Quran say lying is wrong in every case?

    • Umer

      Moderator July 31, 2021 at 2:19 pm

      Quran does not establish a list of fitrat, instead it leaves it to the divine revelation of good and bad which form a basis of univeral morality and which can be inducted from human experience and observation. Quran gives a reference towards fitrah in several places:

      فَأَقِمْ وَجْهَكَ لِلدِّيْنِ حَنِيْفًا فِطْرَةَ اللَّهِ الَّتِیْ فَطَرَ النَّاسَ عَلَيْهَا لَا تَبْدِيْلَ لِخَلْقِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ الدِّيْنُ الْقَيِّمُ وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُوْنَ. مُنِيبِيْنَ إِلَيْهِ وَاتَّقُوْهُ وَأَقِيمُوْا الصَّلَاةَ وَلَا تَكُوْنُوْا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِيْنَ. مِنَ الَّذِيْنَ فَرَّقُوْا دِيْنَهُمْ وَكَانُوْا شِيَعًا كُلُّ حِزْبٍ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ فَرِحُوْنَ.

      So, [now that these facts have become evident] following one God continue to point your face [like your father Abraham] towards his religion. Follow the nature created by God [O Prophet!] on which He has created people. This nature created by God cannot be changed.This only is the straight religion but most people know not. [Follow it] by turning towards God all of you and keep fearing Him and be diligent in the prayer and be not among the idolaters – the idolaters who created divisions in their religion and became divided into factions. Each faction is engrossed in what it has. (30:30-32)

      وَنَفْسٍ وَمَا سَوَّاهَا فَأَلْهَمَهَا فُجُورَهَا وَتَقْوَاهَا قَدْ أَفْلَحَ مَنْ زَكَّاهَا وَقَدْ خَابَ مَنْ دَسَّاهَا (91: 7-10)

      And the soul bears witness and the perfection given to it, then [God] inspired it with its evil and its good that he succeeded who purified it and he failed who corrupted it. (91:7-10)

      After explaining the basis of morality, Quran has also emphasized upon these moral values as a principle asking believers to adopt truthfulness as a way of life:

      يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِيْنَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَقُوْلُوْا قَوْلًا سَدِيْدًا

      Believers! Fear God and speak straight (Quran 33:70)

      يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ كُونُواْ قَوَّامِينَ بِالْقِسْطِ شُهَدَاء لِلّهِ وَلَوْ عَلَى أَنفُسِكُمْ أَوِ الْوَالِدَيْنِ وَالأَقْرَبِينَ إِن يَكُنْ غَنِيًّا أَوْ فَقَيرًا فَاللّهُ أَوْلَى بِهِمَا فَلاَ تَتَّبِعُواْ الْهَوَى أَن تَعْدِلُواْ وَإِن تَلْوُواْ أَوْ تُعْرِضُواْ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرًا (135:4)

      Believers! Adhere to justice by bearing witness to it for God, even though it be against yourselves, your parents, or your kinsfolk. If someone is rich or poor, God only is more worthy for both. So do not be led by base-desires [by leaving His guidance], lest as a result you swerve from the truth. And if you distort [what is true and just] or evade [it, you should remember that] God is well aware of what you do. (Quran 4:135)

      يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ كُونُواْ قَوَّامِينَ لِلّهِ شُهَدَاء بِالْقِسْطِ وَلاَ يَجْرِمَنَّكُمْ شَنَآنُ قَوْمٍ عَلَى أَلاَّ تَعْدِلُواْ اعْدِلُواْ هُوَ أَقْرَبُ لِلتَّقْوَى وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ إِنَّ اللّهَ خَبِيرٌ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ (8:5)

      Believers! Be those who adhere to justice by bearing witness to it for God. And your animosity for some people should not induce you to turn away from justice. Be just; this is nearer to piety. And have fear of God; indeed, God is well aware of all your deeds. (Quran 5:8)

      What you’re referring to is a matter of application in a particular scenario, while keeping in mind that the principle is very clear, there are always some exceptions that arise with every principle, and there can also be some difference of opinion when applying a certain principle in a certain situation. In situations when two values become in conflict, then one has to use his best judgement to choose one over another considering the broader benefit that one may entail from the perspective of piety. But this arises only in some exceptional scenarios, this doesn’t make utilitarianism stand in parallel to principles ingrained in Fitrah.

      If the person genuinely begged forgiveness from God for his previous adultery, he is allowed to marry a virgin and during this process, if he chose to kept his past as a secret for greater cause of starting a family with piety, then his excuse may become acceptable in the sight of God. However, it would still be more pious if he’d not kept any such secret as well.

  • Tahir Khan

    Member July 31, 2021 at 2:28 pm

    If a girl asks the same question from the man, 🤔

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