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  • Variant Readings Of Quran: Invalid Reference Used In Book Meezan?

    Posted by Ali Mir on October 1, 2021 at 9:13 am

    AoA,

    I reviewed the discussion posted here on this topic: Discussion 1028 • Reply 1028

    At the end brother Faheem asked a question on the original reference of the statement of the tabi’in Abu ‘Abd al-Rahman al-Sulami in reference [5]? The statement is quoted from al-Zarkashi’s Al-Burhan.

    My question is specifically about this reference as it appears to be an invalid use of the reference. I am attaching a copy of the original reference (taken from 1:08:48 of this video: https://youtu.be/wDfT8t-itiI). This appears to be talking about the order of Quran in which we have it today vs. the order in which it was given. How is this reference applicable to the discussion on different versions/dialect of the various versus of Quran?

    Kindly elaborate.

    Umer replied 2 years ago 3 Members · 10 Replies
  • 10 Replies
  • Variant Readings Of Quran: Invalid Reference Used In Book Meezan?

    Umer updated 2 years ago 3 Members · 10 Replies
  • Umer

    Moderator October 2, 2021 at 5:14 am

    From where have you concluded that this is talking about order of Quran only and not the Qirat? because there is no such segregation made in the original statement itself.

    Because when something is being read, it logically conveys both the sequence and the way to read it as well i.e. Qirat. If prophet Muhammad (sws) read it twice in his last year, then it means the same was propagated w.r.t both the sequence and Qirat by Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Zayd ibn Thabit and all the Muhajirun and the Ansar.

  • Ahsan

    Moderator October 4, 2021 at 7:43 am

    In recent Q&A Session with Ghamidi Sahab on Questions selected from ASK GHAMIDI Platform:

    For answer to your question, please refer to the video below from 1:01:56 to 1:03:00

    • Ali Mir

      Member October 4, 2021 at 6:30 pm

      oh wow.. it already was raised to the ustaad. I am so humbled. Allah is so kind for us to bless us with an ability to reach out to scholars without having to leave our homes.

      Sorry sir but I think the question would need to be put in front of Ghamidi sahib with a bit more detail and context. It’s fine not to ask during a live recording. Instead present my point offline and a response offline would be completely fine as well.

      Thank you all!

  • Ali Mir

    Member October 4, 2021 at 6:27 pm

    Dear Umer Quraishi,

    I am raising that question based on the context of the statement in Burhan. I had attached the page and also referenced the video.

    I am attaching it again with some highlighting this time. Note that the green box is the reference that Ghamidi sahib has used in the book. The text just before that is talking about ‘tarteeb un nazool’ being different than ‘tarteeb ut tilawah’ and that the sahaba agreed upon that order.

    Following that al-Zarkashi brought this reference from Abu Abd Rahman asSalamah. However, in that reference the last sentence is not copied over in the book “Meezan”. That is continuing the statement and saying that “it is the same what Abu Bakr adapted in his collection and then Usman put in a mushuf by Usman. I understand one reason this might have been omitted in Meezan because Ghamidi sahib takes a stance that the Prophet himself had collected the Quran in a mushuf form. However, it also points the fact that the reference is about the order of the aayats as mushuf can not preserve the ‘qirat’, but only the order.

    If we continue on the page that I attached.. after the reference from Abu Abd Rahman, the next line is talking about ‘jum-ul Quran’. It is this context that leads me to raise the question that al-Zarkashi in this section of his book is talking about the order of Quran, not the specific pronunciation and rules of tilawat.

    If only looking at the partial statement that Ghamidi sb has quoted in Meezan, one can infer that it may also mean that ‘qirat’ is also covered by the statement but the context doesn’t allow it.

    Jazak Allah for your time and attention

    • Umer

      Moderator October 7, 2021 at 9:43 am

      The reference clearly uses the words: ‘Tarteeb-ul-Tilawah’ and ‘Qirat-ul-Aama’, and these are well known words for Qirat which is being read and referred to as ‘Arza-e-Akhira’. Secondly, it is true that Ghamidi Sahab is of view that Quran was available in a book form even during the lifetime of the Prophet (sws), however, he never holds it as a primary source of transmission, the primary source of perpetual transmission was Qirat done by the Prophet (sws) himself; because when something is being read, it logically conveys both the sequence and the way to read it as well i.e. Qirat. If prophet Muhammad (sws) read it twice in his last year, then it means the same was propagated w.r.t both the sequence and Qirat by Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Zayd ibn Thabit and all the Muhajirun and the Ansar; and the same Qirat was later perpetually transmitted from generation after generation till this day. And the same Qirat was given a physical form by Hazrat Uthman (rta) when the need arose to disseminate Qirat-ul-Aama to settle the differences that arose because of many different Qirats.

      But if you still think that this criticism of Dr. Zubair holds any merit, please feel free to register for next AG live session with Ghamidi Sahab to ask him this question personally:

      Discussion 57612

  • Umer

    Moderator April 30, 2022 at 4:23 pm

    For further comments of Ghamidi Sahab, please refer to the video below from 27:43 to 30:31

    https://youtu.be/LzvAFRymyL8?t=1663

  • Ali Mir

    Member May 10, 2022 at 5:05 pm

    Thank you very much for sharing this.

    This is a different explanation though. As per the book Meezan, the other readings were ‘discontinued’ during the last ramadan ‘arza-e-akheera’ and it is not correct/allowed to read in those (see page 28 reference I have attached from the book Meezan).

    In this video, Ghamidi sahib is mentioning that it is OK to read in the other variations as well without any problem.

    Can you kindly clarify what is the correct approach?

    • Umer

      Moderator May 10, 2022 at 8:38 pm

      In the light of Quran (75:16-19), Prophet Muhammad (sws) was directed to follow last recital after it has been read to Him. Other Qirats status should be the same as that of other akhbar-i-ahad, neither do they add anything to the religion, nor do they remove anything from the religion. Neither reciting other Qirats will make them Quran, nor will they replace Quran. As fas as individual reading these Qirats is concerned, one can do so if they’d like, but akhbar-i-ahad do not have any effect on primary sources of religion. The bottomline is that Quran with final recitation is perfectly intact and is being recited as such with Ijma and Tawatur.

  • Ali Mir

    Member May 10, 2022 at 9:20 pm

    Alhumdolillah, I agree that Quran is preserved with it’s Ijma and Tawatur, but is it OK for an Imam to recite other qirat when leading a prayer? Is it even OK to recite other qirats in individual or nafl prayers?

    • Umer

      Moderator May 13, 2022 at 11:06 am

      It is not ok to recite other Qirats.

      But if someone does so individually while knowing the difference between Quran and Akhbar-i-Ahad Qirats, then this can be considered a minor deviance. But when a group of people recite these Qirats under assumption that all these Qirats are same and they equate akhbar-i-ahad Qirat with Arza-e-Akhira Qirat, then this would be a major deviance (zalalat/fikri gumrahi). The way to tackle this would be through academic discourse. This is the same ruling which is also applies to a group when they equate ahadith obtained through Akhbar-i-Ahad with Quran & Sunnah, and consider them a separate and indepenent source of religion.

      Please refer to the following responses of Ghamidi Sahab:

      Please refer to the following link:

      Discussion 21789 • Reply 21981

      ______________________

      Please also refer to the following video from 47:52 to 52:47 and from 59:37 to 1:01:21

      https://youtu.be/oTx-5IF5HYE?t=2872

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