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  • Pakistan Law Of Divorce

    Posted by Sohaib Khan on October 20, 2021 at 3:56 pm

    According to the Pakistan Law of divorce, Oral divorce is not valid. It was implemented to curb harm against the instant divorces. I want to know what are our scholars say about this?

    As it’s a law of a Muslim land is it binding for all the Muslims living in the country? Does it goes against the religious divorce? What if someone still pronounces an oral divorce and if it’s not registered in the Union Council will it be invalid both legally and religiously?

    Dr. Irfan Shahzad replied 2 months, 2 weeks ago 4 Members · 21 Replies
  • 21 Replies
  • Pakistan Law Of Divorce

    Dr. Irfan Shahzad updated 2 months, 2 weeks ago 4 Members · 21 Replies
  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar October 21, 2021 at 12:39 pm

    Religiously and personally it will be still valid

    • mujtaba khokhar

      Member October 19, 2023 at 1:54 am

      Dear sir could you elaborate if possible through ahadis or quranic reasoning why it does take place? Because the law says oral divorce stands ineffective until registered through union council, so are we sinning by hiving oral divorce and going against law of land? Jazakallah khair

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar October 20, 2023 at 4:55 am

    Divorce is the right of man to give. If he gives it does take place. The rest is how to prove it. if both husband and wife confess that divorce did take place, it is validated by the court.

    • mujtaba khokhar

      Member October 27, 2023 at 9:57 am

      I agree sir, men can pronounce divorce as hadis show it was pronounced infront of our prophet by men and he accepted it, but how was it pronounced, because if we don’t have a proper defined and given sunnah method of pronouncing divorce through specific words, then there is a void which the government or leader cab fill and the his directions are obligatory to follow, so did divorce happen through saying ‘ i divorce you’ back then aswell?

  • Umer

    Moderator October 20, 2023 at 7:11 pm

    Please also refer to the video below from 17:01 to 19:14

    • mujtaba khokhar

      Member October 27, 2023 at 9:59 am

      Do gahmdi sahb say that oral divorce takes effect? Even though words of law are any divorce not registered with union council is ineffective, its section 7 of family law 1961.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar October 28, 2023 at 2:55 am

    Ineffective unless proven. Law works that way.

    • mujtaba khokhar

      Member October 28, 2023 at 7:24 am

      Sir law is saying the day union council chairman is notified, a counter of ninety days starts which end with divorce effectiveness, now there are instructions to follow our law according to islam, so it has to be followed word for word and accurately, thus anyone, who does not notify the chairman his divorce according to law is ineffective, and that is why im asking that if there is no procedure in sunnah over what words of divorce are or how divorce is to be pronounced then the procedure laid down by our law become how divorce becomes effective, otherwise it is disobedience to law and even islamically it wont be taking place, cause following the law is obligatory unless it is asking to commit sin.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar October 30, 2023 at 12:21 am

    You are not appreciating the point. It is not about whether the divorce happened or not, it is about how to prove it.

    • mujtaba khokhar

      Member October 30, 2023 at 12:32 am

      Sir i found hadis relating from hazrat ali about the words khulya and burya, that if you say these words they amount to three divirces, now if they amount to one or three is not the concern, but it says that these words count as divorce, so these words are hpw you pronounce a certain divorce, the hadis are in bayhaqi, so that means that if i say these, divorce takes place because prophet pbuh has said obligatory is his sunnaha nd sunnah of the rightly guided caliphs and he who disobeys the prophet disobeys allah, which means disobeys prophet over sunnah or way of khalifas is disobeysing allah and disobeying allah is a sin right? So there is no obeying the leader or governement in sin. Thus the divorce does take place as saying that it is ineffective infront of allah or in general would be against sunnah. Jazakallah khair, if im not right on this do let me know sir

    • mujtaba khokhar

      Member October 30, 2023 at 12:37 am

      Sir you can view hadis number 15013 from al hades website bayhaki. That is also another word,

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar October 30, 2023 at 2:56 am

    The divorce takes place by the word Talaq or by any other word said figuratively with the intention of divorce.

    • mujtaba khokhar

      Member October 30, 2023 at 7:11 am

      Sir but is my reasoning faulty and incorrect? Or it is correct according to the hadis explanation.

    • mujtaba khokhar

      Member October 30, 2023 at 7:44 am

      Sir what your saying is true but it happens once the couple goes to court and court has powers to declare divorce, without court its not possible to say that ur not breaking law by saying our divorce becomes effective, so is my explanation for why it does happen okay?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar October 31, 2023 at 12:10 am

    Kindly restate your understanding if there is any point unanswered.

    • mujtaba khokhar

      Member November 1, 2023 at 12:42 am

      Sir i found hadis relating from hazrat ali about the words khulya and burya, that if you say these words they amount to three divirces, now if they amount to one or three is not the concern, but it says that these words count as divorce, so these words are how you pronounce a certain divorce, the hadis are in bayhaqi, so that means that if i say these, divorce takes place because prophet pbuh has said obligatory is his sunnah and sunnah of the rightly guided caliphs and he who disobeys the prophet disobeys allah, which means disobeys prophet over sunnah or way of khalifas is disobeying allah and disobeying allah is a sin right? So there is no obeying the leader or government in sin. Thus the divorce does take place as saying that it is ineffective infront of allah or in general would be against sunnah. Jazakallah khair, if im not right on this do let me know sir

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar November 1, 2023 at 1:51 am

    There are many things confused here. I try to respond to each.

    The command to obey caliphs is in terms of obedience to abide by the law, a requirement from every citizen. On the other hand, their scholarly opinions or their understanding are not Hujjah as is the Quran and Sunnah of the prophet. Their opinions and their applications of the directives of Shariah are judged in the light of the Quran and Sunnah.

    No single word explicit or implicit can amount to three divorces at a time. The Quran is clear here that these are three occasions, not three numbers uttered at once to declare triple Talaq.

    If it is not proven in court, a divorce in the law does not take place, no matter if it i the court of the prophet or today’s courts. For example, a wife claims that she is divorced and the husband denies and the wife cannot prove it. If it actually is the case, that she is lying, there is no way but through law that a husband can save himself.

    • mujtaba khokhar

      Member November 1, 2023 at 5:32 am

      Sir, if prophet verbally divorced his any of his wifes in his lifetime, then it would be sunnah which is to be followed, and verbal talaq would be effective and would take place no matter what the law says, because it was the method in which the prophet gave divorce and it took place for him so it should for us too, i saw an event where the daughter of jaun was divorced through the words ‘ go back to your family’ is this event true and can these words be taken as the way the prophet pronounced divorce and would it be obligatory to say that oral divorce would definitely take place because it took place when the prophet pronounced it even if law says it will be ineffective until proven either through court or union councils.

    • mujtaba khokhar

      Member November 1, 2023 at 5:34 am

      Sir in short i am curious how you said oral divorce does take place according to shariah, as words in our law are ‘ ineffective ‘ without union councils, so how are oral divorces without union council or courts effective according to your understanding of all this?

    • mujtaba khokhar

      Member November 1, 2023 at 6:16 am

      It should also according to shariah be ineffective as following law of land or the law is obligatory, so ot becomes ineffective shariah wise aswell.

      So how is oral effective shariah wise then

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 13, 2023 at 11:13 pm

    Sunnah is not every act of the prophet, but only those which he initiated as independent acts and taught the Muslims collectively like prayer, fast, etc. However, some when loosely used the term sunnah is used for every act of the prophet, but technically it is not sunnah.

    Verbal divorce does take place. if the matter is between the husband and wife, it will be considered divorce, but if any one of the parties takes it to court, then the court will follow the procedure. The first thing in the court is to prove the act. In this regard, the court of the prophet or any present court are the same. You have to provide written proof or witnesses.

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