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  • Ghamidi Sahab's Light Stance On Astrology Etc. Despite Ahadith Prohibiting It

    Posted by Daniyaa Khan on May 18, 2022 at 5:20 am

    Salam to Everyone

    Is astrology, palmistry or prediction of future in any way allow in islam

    All scholars against it and relate it to shirk. Sir Javed Ahmad Ghamidi have different point of view about it. He says its a ilm but not scientific so keep it on its place. But there are some hadiths about it are these hadiths authentic according to Sir Javed Ahmad Ghamidi.

    Very common hadith is in this link

    Kindly explain because if shirk is involve how can someone use it as a ilm but keep in mind its not scientific because our prophet Muhammad S.A.W told us its wrong.

    Please explain

    Thanks

    Rimsha replied 1 year, 3 months ago 5 Members · 22 Replies
  • 22 Replies
  • Ghamidi Sahab's Light Stance On Astrology Etc. Despite Ahadith Prohibiting It

    Rimsha updated 1 year, 3 months ago 5 Members · 22 Replies
  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator May 18, 2022 at 11:28 am

    The narration you’re referring to is as follows:

    It was narrated that Zaid binKhalid Al-Juhani said:

    “It rained during the time of the Prophet (ﷺ) and he said: ‘Have you nt heard what your Lord said this night? He said: I have never sent down any blessing upon My slaves but some of them become disbelievers thereby, saying: ‘We have been given rain by such and such a star.’ As for the one who believes in Me and praises Me for giving rain, that is the one who believes in Me and disbelieves in the stars. But the one who says: ‘We have been given rain by such and such a star’ he has disbelieved in Me and believed in the stars.”

    أَخْبَرَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ صَالِحِ بْنِ كَيْسَانَ، عَنْ عُبَيْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، عَنْ زَيْدِ بْنِ خَالِدٍ الْجُهَنِيِّ، قَالَ مُطِرَ النَّاسُ عَلَى عَهْدِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَالَ ‏ “‏ أَلَمْ تَسْمَعُوا مَاذَا قَالَ رَبُّكُمُ اللَّيْلَةَ قَالَ مَا أَنْعَمْتُ عَلَى عِبَادِي مِنْ نِعْمَةٍ إِلاَّ أَصْبَحَ طَائِفَةٌ مِنْهُمْ بِهَا كَافِرِينَ يَقُولُونَ مُطِرْنَا بِنَوْءِ كَذَا وَكَذَا فَأَمَّا مَنْ آمَنَ بِي وَحَمِدَنِي عَلَى سُقْيَاىَ فَذَلِكَ الَّذِي آمَنَ بِي وَكَفَرَ بِالْكَوْكَبِ وَمَنْ قَالَ مُطِرْنَا بِنَوْءِ كَذَا وَكَذَا فَذَاكَ الَّذِي كَفَرَ بِي وَآمَنَ بِالْكَوْكَبِ ‏”‏ ‏.‏

    https://sunnah.com/nasai:1525

    As it is evident from the narration that attributing the cause of the rain to be a star or anything other than God is disbelief, and one should strictly refrain from it.

    Astrology and other such fields generally only predict certain events without attributing their causes to anything. They simply read the signs and make predictions. However, these fields are not scientific yet i.e. there are no agreed upon tested principles for these predictions. Until such time that they become science, it’s only guesswork that we should stay away from.

  • Daniyaa Khan

    Member May 18, 2022 at 4:05 pm

    It is mentioned on various places in Quran and Hadith about not going to fortune tellers and do not do predictions by stars etc

    If its a knowledge (ilm) which is not scientific yet but still a knowledge (ilm) why islam is so against it and strictly forbids it.

    And Because Quran and Hadiths strictly forbids it why Javed Ahmad Ghamidi does not seem so strict about it.

    There is also a hadith if I am not wrong I heard a scholar saying this hadith or Verse…from beginning I do not remember it but lastly it says who go to najoomi and Tells you are right (Us ki bat ki Taeed krta hai) Its wrong something like that

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator May 18, 2022 at 4:28 pm

    I have explained the answer to your very question in my previous response. All such narrations should be understood in the context of polytheism i.e. attributing the cause of events to be anything other than God.

  • Daniyaa Khan

    Member May 18, 2022 at 4:46 pm

    How can a person’s 40 days prayers can not be accepted if he just goes to fore teller. Its does not says if you attributing the cause of events to be anything other than God.. it simply says if you go your 40 days prayers can not be accepted.

    if we see 2nd hadith somehow it also says whoever approaches fortune teller has disbelieved what revealed to Muhammad S.A.W, It does not say anything attributing or cause it all says not even go there

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator May 18, 2022 at 7:16 pm

    Hadith narrations are not like the Quran that has been transmitted word for word. Also the word عَرَّافًا used in the narration you referred to above can also be used to refer to diviners, people performing witchcraft, etc.

  • Daniyaa Khan

    Member May 19, 2022 at 5:40 pm

    But here the hadith using word discover “daryafat” person can discover something from a fortune teller etc

    How A diviner, or user of witchcraft fits here? What a person will discover from them?Their future? If they tell the future then what is the difference between fortune teller and a diviner?

  • Daniyaa Khan

    Member May 20, 2022 at 1:16 pm

    Please explain

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator May 20, 2022 at 3:42 pm

    As I stated above all such narrations have to be understood in the context of polytheism. Since most hadith narrations are neither transmitted in their original words nor with the required context, it’s not correct to judge their meaning only with what’s apparent. Translations of narrations add yet another level of subjectivity. Instead, all narrations must be holistically understood in the context of the framework of religion provided by the Quran and the Sunnah.

    Quran verse 7:33 clearly lists 5 categories that have been made haram by God (in addition to dietary restrictions laid out earlier in the same chapter). If anything in religion is prohibited by Prophet Muhammad SAW in a hadith narration, it has to fall within one of these categories. By the nature of what’s being forbidden by the Prophet in the narrations under discussion it’s clear that it’s due to polytheism.

    قُلْ إِنَّـمَا حَرَّمَ رَبِّيَ الْفَوَاحِشَ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَمَا بَطَنَ وَالإِثْمَ وَالْبَغْيَ بِغَيْرِ الْـحَقِّ وَأَن تُشْرِكُوْا بِاللّهِ مَا لَـمْ يُنَزِّلْ بِهِ سُلْطَانًا وَأَن تَقُولُوْا عَلَى اللّهِ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُوْنَ

    Tell [them]: “My Lord has only forbidden all lewd acts, whether overt or hidden and usurping the rights of others and wrongful oppression and that you worship with Him what He did not sanction and that you fabricate something about God what you know not.”

    For details about determining halal and haram please refer to videos in the following thread:

    Discussion 42832

  • Umer

    Moderator May 21, 2022 at 4:48 pm

    To understand Ghamidi Sahab’s take on how to approach hadith corpus from an epistemological stand-point, you’re requested to please go through all the resources provided in the following response or at the very least, go through the text and videos provided under the heading “placement of Hadith in the overall framework of religion“:

    Discussion 66135 • Reply 66162

    ___________

    Associating other gods with God Almighty is termed as polytheism (shirk) in the terminology of the Quran. It means:

    a) to regard someone to have the same genre as that of God or to regard God to have the same genre as someone; or

    b) to regard someone to have a role in creation or in running the affairs of the creatures and in this manner make someone God’s peer to some extent or another.

    Examples of the first type of polytheism are the beliefs of Christians and the Polytheists of Arabia about Jesus (sws) and Mary (sws) and about the angels respectively. The belief of wahdat al-wujud is another example of this.

    Examples of the second type are the beliefs regarding Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva in Hinduism and the beliefs regarding Ghaws, Qutub, Abdal, Data and Gharib Nawaz among Muslims. Belief in evil spirits and stars and in the powers of Satan, also belong to this category of polytheism.

    Superstitions that human beings become target of are of this genre too. Thus the Prophet (sws) has warned people about them. He has also preventively stopped people from certain things which though do not fall in the ambit of polytheism are liable to lead to it.

    In addition to this, “following of speculations” is also prohibited in Quran 17:22-39 (“And do not go after what you know not because eyes, ears, and heart – all of them shall be questioned“. Therefore, all such activities, in addition to being resulting in polytheism, at the very least result in “following of speculations“; that’s why Prophet Muhammad (sws) has warned more intensively about such things because of both these dimensions i.e. risk of sinning right from the start (following of speculations) to its conclusion (polytheism). Therefore, Ghamidi Sahab has always considered it a slippery slope and has warned people that as long as they can stay away from both these dimensions surrounding this and other similar knowledge, they can pursue such studies but they should never be considered a form of knowledge as opposed to established science, unless newly acquired evidence indicates otherwise. Experience suggests that more likely than not, one is ought to fall in one of the two domains mentioned above. So as long as one can separate these two from mere pursuit of knowledge, then it can be considered acceptable. Cause and effect, in the absence of established science, will always be attributed to Allah.

    __

    For work on these Ahadith in Hadith Project, please see:

    توہم پرستی | Hadith Project

    __

    Please also refer to the link below from 2:08 to 10:08 and from 46:14 to 51:18

    ilm-o-Hikmat 13-05-2018

    __

    Please refer to the following complete lecture for details (specifically from 15:25 to 26:21)

  • Umer

    Moderator May 21, 2022 at 4:49 pm

    Please also refer to the video below from 36:32 to 45:17 (specifically from 41:08 onward)

  • Sameer Namole

    Member October 12, 2022 at 12:24 am

    AoA sir

    In your answer you said ”…. Belief in evil spirits and stars and in the powers of Satan, also belong to this category of polytheism.”

    Can you please explain it a bit, I have believing since years that Allah has given some powers to shaytaan.

    And what does our religion says about Ghosts and Evil spirits??

    Thanks in advance sir

  • Rimsha

    Member January 4, 2023 at 7:12 am

    Sir @UmerQureshi

    apne jo shirk ki dosri type explain ki hai uper us ma apne evil spirit aur believe in power of shatan kaha. iska mtlb samjha dijye. yaha jin se murad ha ya shaitan se. aur power pe yaqeen ka kya mtlb ha jino aur shaitan dono k pass powers hn jo ALLAH PAK ne dye un pe yaqeen se kya insan shirk krta hai?

    aur ye k jinnat se shaitan se madad lena ghalat hai? aur agr ghalat ha tu kya sahi maksad k lye b madad lena ghalat hai? aur kya astrology alag ha aur jo log ghaib ka ilm btate hn jinnat ko qabo ma krte hn wo kuch batain asman se sunte hn phir apne kahano ko btate hn wo alag hai? kon c cheez ghalat ha aur kon c nahi.

    humain kaisy pta chaly k kisi nafsi masle k hal k lye hum jis k pas aye hn wo rohani ilaj kry ga ya jinnat sy shaitan madad ly ga.

    is se mutaliq aik aur sawal paida hota ha k janab Javed Ahmad Ghamidi ny kaha dum taweez ma masla nai ha bs shirk na ho taweez ma tu insan khol kr dekha leta kya likha ha lakin jo dum krte hn wo khamoshi se parhte hn aur phonk mar dete hn humain kaisy pta chaly unhon ny jo parha ha wo shirk tha ya nahi kiun k aksar logon ko zarort par jati ha dum ki aur wo theek b hojaty hn kbi kbi

    • Umer

      Moderator January 6, 2023 at 10:58 pm

      Aik cheez ka taluq ilm sai hai aur aik ka amal sai.

      Jahan tak ilm ka sawal hai wahan Islam yai kehta hai kai har Qisam kai ‘auham‘ sai bacha jaye, aur jis cheez ki koe ilmi bunyad na hoo wahan aisay auham main parna bhot asan hoo jata hai, laihaza ehtiyat bh utni hi zayada karni chaiai. Jinn ya shaitan ko kitni powers mili hain, iska Quran main zikar nhi, yai insano kai tajarbon ki batain hain – kuch isharat zaror mojud hain laikin baqaida tor pai kuch kehna bhot mushkil hai. Chunkay ilmi bunyyad kamzor hai, toh yahan pai tawahum kai dar aanay ka khatra bh mojud hai jis sai insan baghair kisi ilmi bunyad kai cheezain najum, jinn, shaitan sai munsalik karna shuru kar daita hai aur yahen sai phir shrik ki rah bh nikalti hai jahan in cheezon ko woh maqam dai diya jata hai jo khuda kai khalq aur amar main shamil honay kai mutradif kehlati hain. Islam chahta hai kai jahan aisi mazbut ilmi bunyad mojud na hoo, wahan har cheez kai honay na honay ka sirra Allah sai hi jora jaye, takay har kisam kai auham aur har kisam kai shirk sai bacha jaa sakay.

      Amali zindagi main agar aap ka itmenan hai kai koe shaks nafsi ulum ka mahir hai aur kisi qisam kai shirk ka bh koe shaiba bazahir nazar nhi aata us sai, toh phir aap apnay tajarbay ki bunyad pai aisay shaks sai ruju kar saktay hain. Is main auham ya shirk ka khatra nhi agar aap nafsi ulum kai ilmi pehlu ko auham sai alag rakh sakti hain. Aam tor pai aik khas marhalay kai baad aisa karna mushkil hoo jata hai, isi liya had darjay ehtiyat ka kaha jata hai. Aik maqam aisa aajata hain jahan tadqeer kai faislay sitron ki chal sai samjhay jaatay hain aur Jinnat sai loh-e-mahfuz main taqdeer mitai aur likhwae jati hai. Inhi cheezon sai Allah kai Rasul nai mutanabbay kiya thaa.

    • Rimsha

      Member January 7, 2023 at 5:24 am

      Kya shaitan luh-e-mefoz ma jo ALLAH PAK my likh dya har insan k lye usko mita skte hn tabdeel kr skte jain? humne hamesha se suna hai ALLAH PAK ny sb pehle se luh-e-mehfoz ma likh dya ha usko koe nahi badal skta tu shaitan kaisy phir? isks saboot kahan se milta hai kya ALLAH PAK ny quran ma kaha hai? kiun k ye tu boht bara ikhtiyar hai. kya ALLAH PAK ny khud farmya hai k shaitan ko maine ye taqat di hai agr ALLAH PAK ny nahi farmya tu kya aisa kehna bhi shirk nai hai?

      aur mera sawal ye bhi tha uper jo apne shirk ki dosri type ma likha

      “Belief in evil spirits and stars and in the powers of Satan,”

      iska kya mtlb ha k shaitan ki power pe yaqeen rkhna? jb k yaqeen tu hum sb rkhte un ko ALLAH ne powers di hn aur shaitan se apka mtlb kya ha shaitan ya jin?

      aur evil spirit aur star se kya mtlb hai apka?

    • Umer

      Moderator January 8, 2023 at 11:51 pm

      Yai logon kai shirkiya aqaid bayan kartay huay hi luh-e-mehfuz wali baat ka zikar kiya thaa, na kia yai bayan karna maqsood thaa kai luh-e-mefuz ko tabdeel kiya jaa sakta hai. Luh-e-mehfuz kai baray main aur jinn-o-shayaten kai baray main hamain bhot kam malumat dee gae hai, toh uski bunyad par koe bh baat qatae tor pai nhi kahi jaa sakti (Details: Discussion 38314).

      Belief in evil spirits and stars and in the powers of Satan”: Is sai murad aisi powers pai belief hai jis sai khuda kai khalq-o-amar main kisi bh qisam ki shirakat qaim hoti hoo jaisay ghaus aur abdal kai mamlay main hoti hai. Shaitan sai murad jinn hi hain. Inko kitni powers mili hue hain, iski kuch malumat zaroor mili hai Quran main laikin woh bh itni nhi kai koe bh qatae baat ki jaa sakti hoo. (Details: Discussion 38072 • Reply 38152)

      Aisay tamam maamlat hum apnay tajarbay aur mushahiday ki bunyad pai kartay hain, agar us bunyad par kisi shaks kai kaam main shirk ka koe shaiba nhi hai toh uski taraf ruju kiya jaa sakta hai nafsi ulum kai maamlay hain, laikin agar uskai kaam main shirkiya amal ka pata chal jata hai, toh phir zahir hai ijtenab hi kiya jayega. (Details: Discussion 64223)

    • Rimsha

      Member January 7, 2023 at 5:35 am

      aur sth he sth logon ka tajurba ha kbi kisi pe jin ka saya hojata ha wo physically bhi noqsan pohnchata hai. bki kehta hain nam ka insan ki zindgi pe bht asar hota ha name change krty hain tu theek hota tu kya ye tadbeer krna thk hoga jinnat sy chotakara b aisy log he dilwate jin k pas aisa ilm hota dosri trf ALLAH PAK ne tadbeer b hukam dya dua k sth tadbeer kro. phir insan har kisi se ja ja kr ye kaisy poche ap shirk krain gy ya ap shaitan se madad lein gy isko theek krne ma ya nai ye tu bht ajeeb sa masla ha

  • Rimsha

    Member January 5, 2023 at 8:55 am

    Barei mehrbani wazahat kar dijye

  • Rimsha

    Member January 9, 2023 at 1:12 pm

    Ap ny uper jawb main kaha

    “Luh-e-mehfuz kai baray main aur jinn-o-shayaten kai baray main hamain bhot kam malumat dee gae hai, toh uski bunyad par koe bh baat qatae tor pai nhi kahi jaa sakti”

    is se apki kya murad ha k quran ny btya nai tafseel se k shaitan taqdeer badal sakte hn jo luh-e-mehfooz pe likhi ha is lye ye samjha jay ga k shaitan luh-e-mefoz ko badal bh sakte hain aur nahi bh ya phir wo badal nai skte lakin log bs aisa sochte hn aur shirk krte hain??

    agr aisa ha tu phir tu ALLAH PAK ne khud shaitan ko ikhtiyar dy dya ha taqdeer badlne ka phir dua b badal skti aur shaitan b phir tu shirk pehle se majood ha kisi ko krne ki zarort nai

    agr ye sch ha log shaitan se mada le kr ameer ho jaty hn apne bry bry kaam krwate hn ya koe na jaiz kaam lete hn tu shaitan unki taqdeer badal rha ALLAH Maaf kry? ye concept samjh nahi arha. bs ye kehna ka quran ma nahi ha kuch is bry ma lakin ye is bt ki wazahat kaisy kry ga logon k lye k ALLAH PAK ny apna ikhtyr kaisy dy dya ye sb tu ALLAH k hath ma hai?

    ya ALLAH PAK ko pta tha ye madad ly ga shaitan se ye kam kry ga shaitan us sy barh kr nai kr skta?

    aur kya sitary b taqdeer b badalte hn ya bs sitaron se future btya jta ha

    ye wazahat kr dijye bht pacheeda masla ha kuch samj nai arha uljhan ka bais hai

    Shukria

    • Umer

      Moderator January 11, 2023 at 1:14 am

      These questions have digressed from the main topic. Therefore you are requested to post your question in a new post.

    • Rimsha

      Member January 12, 2023 at 7:37 am

      Jee sir maine post krdya ha alag se

  • Rimsha

    Member January 9, 2023 at 4:41 pm

    Aur kya Aisy ilm se maslan kaly jado se kiun k is ma shaitan shamil hote kisi ki zindgi barhai ja sakti ha kisi ko khas faidy dye ja skte hn kisi ko bht shohrat di ja skti ha iski aik misal aj kal illuminati b ha

    agr illuminati ka taluq kaly jadu se nahi b hai tu kya kaly jadu ma shaitan ko bht power hasil ha kya ALLAH PAK ny koe limit nai rkhi logon k rawayon se lagta ha jo kala jadu krty ya krwaty jaisy ALLAH Maaf kry wo sb kr skte hain agr ALLAH PAK ny waziya tor pr in ki hadood nahi batai jo tajurby sy pata chal rha tu ye cheez tu logon ko gumrah kr skti hai k wo pta nahi kya kya kr skte hain

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