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  • Umm-e-Waraqah Leading Salah Only For Her Household

    Posted by Taimur Chaudhry on June 8, 2022 at 4:55 am

    Ghamidi sahib has said in a couple videos that Umm Waraqah did imamat in a normal masjid where the obligatory prayers were performed. However, the only hadith I have been able to find is Abi Dawud 592:

    حَدَّثَنَا الْحَسَنُ بْنُ حَمَّادٍ الْحَضْرَمِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ فُضَيْلٍ، عَنِ الْوَلِيدِ بْنِ جُمَيْعٍ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ خَلاَّدٍ، عَنْ أُمِّ وَرَقَةَ بِنْتِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ الْحَارِثِ، بِهَذَا الْحَدِيثِ وَالأَوَّلُ أَتَمُّ قَالَ وَكَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَزُورُهَا فِي بَيْتِهَا وَجَعَلَ لَهَا مُؤَذِّنًا يُؤَذِّنُ لَهَا وَأَمَرَهَا أَنْ تَؤُمَّ أَهْلَ دَارِهَا ‏.‏ قَالَ عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ فَأَنَا رَأَيْتُ مُؤَذِّنَهَا شَيْخًا كَبِيرًا

    This hadith only mentions her household. Right now I’m not questioning the imamat of women. I’m just interested in the source(s) that say she did imamat of a masjid.

    Taimur Chaudhry replied 11 months, 4 weeks ago 3 Members · 6 Replies
  • 6 Replies
  • Umm-e-Waraqah Leading Salah Only For Her Household

  • Taimur Chaudhry

    Member June 8, 2022 at 5:26 am

    The only other related thing I’ve read is on the meaning implied by Dar(iha), meaning something akin to a neighborhood. But the rest of the hadith does not have any inclination to take Dar out of it’s general meaning of ‘home’.

    • اشهل صادق

      Member June 8, 2022 at 8:22 am

      السلام عليكم

      Taimur, first of all, the Prophet used to appoint imams for neighbourhoods, not houses. Secondly, the report says he appointed a مؤذن for her and the azan is only given in mosques to call people to prayer. We don’t give azans in our houses when we are praying in a congregation. Furthermore, the report itself says that the Prophet used to visit her in her بيت but ordered her to lead the people of her دار in prayer. Two different words. Also, notice that the word is “ordered,” not “allowed,” “permitted” and so on. He actually ordered her to lead her دار in prayer. Why is that? Why would he order only one woman to lead the women of her house in prayer? Which religious injunction was that? Why weren’t other knowledgeable women also ordered to lead the women of their houses in prayer? Also, the مؤذن was a man. That suggests that men were also praying behind her. I think these are some of the points which lead us to question the meaning of دار as a single house in this report. Would love to know what you think!

  • Taimur Chaudhry

    Member June 9, 2022 at 7:42 am

    @Ashehal wassalam and thanks for the reply. A couple questions:

    (1) From which source(s) can we establish the Prophet appointed imam’s for neighborhood’s and not houses. I feel this distinction may put the whole debate to rest if validated.

    (2) There’s a lot of ambiguity surrounding these 2 words. Some online resources consider bayt as her individual apartment or hujrah and Dar as the extended external structure of walls enclosing her house. Do you have sources on how the etymology of these words should be understood in this particular context?

    (3) I did not understand what you meant here: “Why is that? Why would he order only one woman to lead the women of her house in prayer? Which religious injunction was that? Why weren’t other knowledgeable women also ordered to lead the women of their houses in prayer?” Doesn’t this act counter to what you’re inferring? This seems like implying: surely if knowledgeable women being imams wasn’t an issue, we would know of other women and not only Umm Waraqah?

    • اشهل صادق

      Member June 9, 2022 at 10:56 am

      السلام عليكم

      Good questions.

      1) The source for this is the collection of reports we have. I am unable to reference a report right now, however, but I thought this was well known. If you think I am mistaken, feel free to correct me.

      2) No. But the difference you mentioned, don’t you think it makes no sense in this context whatsoever? I think either the words have been used interchangeably or دار has been used as a neighbourhood.

      3) Good point, but no, I don’t think so. The reason being that men attended the Prophet and could attend the Prophet more often than women. Naturally, it was almost impossible for women to be more knowledgeable than men. The women who could be more knowledgeable than men were naturally around the Prophet and that meant that the Prophet was himself there to lead the prayers. Umm e Waraqa may have hailed from an area far from the Prophet and the men there may not have been learned or the learned may not have been present, instead travelling for preaching others. What I mean to say is the chances of women being more learned than men were almost zero. That is one of the reasons women did not lead prayers.

      On the other hand, if we take this report to mean that the Prophet appointed her to lead her household, why didn’t he order other women to lead their households? Of course, there must be many women around to be led in their own households, don’t you think? It isn’t like we are talking about mosques in this interpretation that there can only be one in an area. Why just one? And why “order” her?

      Also, based on Arab culture and what concessions Islam offered women, it seems they weren’t particularly comfortable in the presence of men. Remember that Islam allows them the concession not to raise their voice to alert the imam of a mistake. So, when learned men are available, why would women lead prayers? Also, I think etiquettes dictate that men lead the prayers. However, this may have not been the case with Umm e Waraqa. Hence, the Prophet “ordered” her to lead the prayers (she was the only one available).

      Would love to hear your thoughts!

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator June 9, 2022 at 11:10 am

    دَارِ does not only mean household. For details please see:

    Discussion 54196 • Reply 55238

  • Taimur Chaudhry

    Member June 9, 2022 at 1:56 pm

    @Ashehal @faisalharoon

    Jazak Allah khair. These replies have helped a lot.

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