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  • Quran Chapter 1 – Conditional Help

    Posted by Mohammad Ali Soomro on November 24, 2022 at 1:41 am

    Hello there ,

    My question is that, ghamidi Sahab often says that the context or ‘Mouqa aur Mahal’ is always present in the same surah, in preceding or following verses, which make it clear what Allah wants to say in an Ayah or surah. But in surah Fatiha, what is the thing or word or sentence which makes it clearly evident that the words “You alone we ask for help” are not general but only related to those things which are out of physical realm. I mean how this limitation to this ayat for only extra-physical realm is put into it? I mean if only considering this surah in mind and as ghamidi Sahab says that surah itself contains context which makes it clear and no external source is needed to establish the context of the surah. So how can it be established here?

    Dr. Irfan Shahzad replied 1 week, 4 days ago 3 Members · 12 Replies
  • 12 Replies
  • Quran Chapter 1 – Conditional Help

    Dr. Irfan Shahzad updated 1 week, 4 days ago 3 Members · 12 Replies
  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member November 24, 2022 at 1:47 am

    I mean in the same ayat we see that “You alone we worship”, here nothing is exception and it applies in every aspect. But in the same ayat the word of “Help” is interpreted with exception or condition, why is that so?

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator November 24, 2022 at 2:49 am

    There is no exception or condition. The help we seek from God is inclusive of everything including in the physical realm.

    Quran Translation-Chapter 1 Paragraph 2

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member November 24, 2022 at 2:56 am

    @faisalharoon sir then what about asking people for help? Like going to a friend and asking him that can you help me in this matter? And also going to a religious scholar to ask him that can you help me in this religious matter? Similarly going to doctor, asking for help to pass a glass of water, asking a policeman to help him track the thief. Physically asking like “will you help me in this…” Etc

  • Faisal Haroon

    Moderator November 24, 2022 at 3:10 am

    Even when we seek help from others in our lives it is with an implicit belief that ultimately the help comes from God. It is God that allows or enables others to help us.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar November 24, 2022 at 3:13 am

    Another aspect in addition to context is a logical requirement or exigency, عقلی اقتضا. We know for what things we turn to God for help and asking help in those matters from others is Shirk.

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member November 24, 2022 at 3:26 am

    @irfan76 @faisalharoon so sir we can say that how our other Ulema explain this point is right? Like even if we linguistically say that “will you help me…” It is actually just a request to a person that will you do this worldly asbaab for me, through which i will receive Allah’s help?

    But one more aspect comes into mind that if we say this is case as mentioned above, then aren’t we asking them for help to do their part through which Allah’s help would come, in other words in order for Allah’s help we need to do some course of action, and for that course of action we ask them to ‘help us’ to do that course of action or that they do it themselves for us.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar November 24, 2022 at 10:05 pm

    Allah has the power to create the resources and circumstances, and also He can change them, when we aks help from God, it is in this realm. But when we seek help from our fellow beings, it is within the given limitations. This is what has been termed as ما ورائے اسباب اور اسباب کے تحت beyoing the resources and withing the resoures.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar November 24, 2022 at 10:07 pm

    For example, we ask for health or recovery from an illness from God and also request a doctor to cure us. The result would be the same we regain our health. but we know God and the doctor have their own ways to produce the result.

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member November 25, 2022 at 12:58 am

    @Irfan76 sir so when we read the above Ayat “You only we ask for help”, so in the Arabic language it was a logical requirement that it is about that type of help only that is only sought as a way of worship and only sought with Allah?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar November 25, 2022 at 2:22 am

    yes.

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member November 25, 2022 at 2:33 am

    @irfan76 sir what I felt is that, maybe it is because we are talking in English or Urdu where the word ‘Help’ or ‘Madad’ is very general. And that’s why it becomes confusing as to where did the distinction came from from. But i guess in Arabic the used above which we translate, generally to help is actually a specific thing among the realm of the general word of ‘help’ in Urdu, is it like this?

    Sir but we see Hadith like these,

    Awf ibn Malik reported: We were with the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, while there were seven, or eight, or nine of us. The Prophet said, “Will you not give your pledge to the Messenger of Allah?” We had recently given our pledge, so we said, “We have given you our pledge of allegiance,” but the Prophet said it again three times. We offered our hands and pledged allegiance to him again. Someone said, “O Messenger of Allah, we have already given you our pledge, so what are we pledging to now?” The Prophet said, “That you worship Allah and do not associate any partners with him, that you pray for five prayers, that you listen and obey,” and then the Prophet said something very softly, “And that you do not ask people for anything.” Indeed, some of those people obeyed this to the extent that if his whip were to fall from his mount, he would not ask anyone to hand it to him.

    Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 1043

    Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Muslim

    Hadith on Independence: Companions pledge not to ask from anyone

    Sir then why did prophet tell them not to ask anything from people, and not to an extent of suggestion but to an extent of pledge?! What does it explain here?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar November 27, 2022 at 10:31 pm

    In simple language, we advise in the same manner to our kids, don’t beg, don’s ask for anyting from others. دوسروں سے کچھ نہیں مانگنا چاہیے۔

    کسی سے کوئی چیز لے کر مت کھانا۔

    such advice or insturctions are understood in their context and exegencies. We can understand that the prophet meant do not beg, do not lower your self esteem by asking something. He cannot mean never to aks anyting from anyone. it is impossible. The campanios who took it in the stricts sense of the words, it was their aptitude. The narrator described it this way, that they went tot he extent. it means other did not go to that extent.

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