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  • Hadith About Gaining Knowledge And The Warning Of Hell

    Posted by Mohammad Ali Soomro on December 6, 2022 at 1:41 pm

    Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Whoever seeks knowledge that should be sought for the sake of Allah Almighty, but only to gain some worldly benefit, he will never know the fragrance Paradise on the Day of Resurrection.”

    Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 3664

    And also such ahadith that indicate that there is hell for someone who acquires knowledge to argue with someone or show off etc.

    So i wanted to know why is such strong warning given for someone who learns something about Islam without the intention to please Allah?

    If it is in relation to Riya or Shirk, then according to my understanding, it would be only if an action of ibadah is done to show others our piety or intending to gain benefit from them for doing an ibadah(getting money for worshipping Allah). But if an action which is not done as an ibadah, so taking benefit from it won’t be a sin. Like a person who helps someone can be ibadah of charity if he did it for Allah’s pleasure, so no one would take benefit from others for his own charity. But if that same action of help is done as an exchange of service or to earn money then it is a Mubah thing. So similarly if someone learns knowledge of an aspect of Islam but only as to increase general knowledge then what can be wrong in it?

    Learning knowledge about Islam, would just be a normal act like learning knowledge of physics. What makes it a worship act is acquiring it to please Allah or to help him obey Allah’s commandment. But by looking at these Ahadith, apparently it feels like knowing anything about islam where an intention of Allah is not present, would become sinful to such a great extent?

    Like for example a person learns about many rulings of Islam which are related to his daily life, here he acquires it know what things are allowable by Allah and what are not so he can act accordingly to it in his daily life, hence it is done for Allah.

    But many things of Islam, a person just try to know about it out of total curiosity. Like someone going through internet, watches a thumbnail of his favorite scholar talking about an issue which he has no relation with in terms of his daily life or even in near future, for example a Man who is in his old age without any children etc and just knowing about the rights of children etc out of pure curiosity just like someone has for any thing. So at that particular instance, or for example watching that popped up video of a scholar talking about some matter of Islam that a person is listening to solely out of curiosity. Such knowing of Islamic knowledge would also be blameworthy to this extent? He did that for a worldly reason (not to please Allah), the worldly reason of curiosity without any intention of pleasing Allah. So his acquiring of such knowledge would make him go in hell?

    Dr. Irfan Shahzad replied 1 month, 2 weeks ago 2 Members · 39 Replies
  • 39 Replies
  • Hadith About Gaining Knowledge And The Warning Of Hell

    Dr. Irfan Shahzad updated 1 month, 2 weeks ago 2 Members · 39 Replies
  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 7, 2022 at 1:07 am

    Aa told earlier , any entity which can be pleased as a rival to God brings an act of good as shirk or riyakari. Having no intention or having an intention which is not rival to good doesn’t not make an act or intention shirk.

    An example given earlier again put here, that if I show my saying of prayer toy kids to make them namazi is a good intention and not riyakari although there is an entity( kids) other than God. So having another intention is not shirk. Only that intention to please an entity is shirk that can be rival to God

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 7, 2022 at 1:09 am

    @irfan76 sir but we see also that scholars say that doing an act of ibadah for earning money is also shirk, but here no one is being pleased. Only money is being earned in return for worship. Like here we see that intention for worship (which is to be done for Allah) is actually being done to earn money, hence scholars say this to be shirk, like someone says to someone that I’ll give you such such amount of money if you pray namaz, and by namaz they don’t mean mere postures of namaz but actually the real proclamation of glory of Allah and displaying submissiveness to Allah by those actions, which make it a namaz. So i person does that namaz for money, that scholars also say is Shirk

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 7, 2022 at 1:17 am

    @irfan76 and sir also in hadith above the words used are “for worldly benefits”, here no mention of pleasing people is specifically made, it’s just like worldly reasons, which i guess could be anything like money or pleasure of someone, or averting someone’s punishment etc

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 7, 2022 at 1:27 am

    Anything, until it is proven unethical, is not forbidden, is the main principle. If you accept this principle, then we have to read the “worldly benefits” or any other intention to please someone as bad only when our conscience or our moral standards consider them unethical or immoral. That is why saying a prayer for money is bad, and leading prayers as Imam as a duty and receiving remuneration is not bad, showing saying of prayer to someone to please him and showing saying to kids to make them namazi is not bad.

    if you hold the principle, you can solve all such cases.

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 7, 2022 at 1:56 am

    @irfan76 okay sir, sir so if for example a lecturer of Islamic science learns a topic of Islam with intention to deliver the lecture in a university regarding it and earn money, or if someone learns it in order to teach someone and get money instead for teaching, so although he is doing it for worldly reasons, but this won’t be a sin like this? I mean he clearly fits the wordings of Hadith, “seeking knowledge (Islamic) for worldly reason”? Or someone memorizes Quran passages, to take part in a competition and get prizes, so it would be just like the example of someone memorizing a normal book for getting prizes, neither sin nor sawab?

    Or does this hadith tell about someone who learns it in a way of worship but uses such notion projecting (that he learned it for Allah) for worldly benefits. Like for example a person X , sees that scholars are very much famous and favored by people because they learn religion to fulfill their own and communal obligations set by Allah, they do it for pleasure of Allah, and people, knowing that they do it for Allah and fulfill their duty made on them by Allah, adore them. This image of them in eyes of people, make them an apple of eye for people, people honor them, people love them, people send them lots of gifts out of love, people fix front seats for them in occasions and functions. All of this not just because they have information about Islam in their brains but their seeking of knowledge for Allah’s pleasure and duty. So the person X wants to have such a status, so he also learns like scholars and in a way projects and displays himself to people that he has also done it like the path of those scholars, whose aim is Allah’s pleasure. So he makes such display of his image like he did this for Allah, so that people consider him the “real scholar” not like an information machine but “a real scholar” who does it for Allah, but the real motive behind this seeking and projection of this image is just to gain that status. So such a person going and seeking knowledge in such way is the one sinful and in hell, because he projects himself to be doing it for Allah (in other words be the “real scholar” who is a worshipper while gaining knowledge) only to gain status and money etc. So he uses this worshipping to earn money and status.

    Because scholars are not honored by people just because they have information in mind about Islam. but because they learn for Allah, they teach for Allah. We can see it that when anyone who says that they learn about religions just as a hobby is not honored like the one who does the same course of action with intention of doing it for Allah and to do service of Allah’s s Deen.

    So sir can the Hadith above be interpreted in above manner or it would be like even a mere fitting of religious knowledge in mind with any other intention is sinful (like a lecturer in University, or a Quran competition player who memorizes ayat for prize)? Can you explain what does that hadith explain sir?

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 7, 2022 at 11:20 am

    @Irfan76 and sir also I’m putting 2 Ahadith here, so can you explain to me according to which rules of Islamic violation, do these actions come under?;

    Jabir ibn Abdullah reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Do not acquire knowledge to impress the scholars, nor to argue with the fools, and do not seek the best seat in the gathering by it. Whoever does so, then to the Hellfire, the Hellfire!”

    Source: Sunan Ibn Mājah 254

    Hadith on ‘Ilm: Islamic knowledge not for worldly gain

    Whoever seeks knowledge to impress the scholars, to argue with the foolish, or to attract the attention of people, Allah will admit him into Hellfire.


    Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 2654

    Hadith on Knowledge: Warning to study Islam for worldly reasons

    Sir so 4 things are mentioned here

    1) Impressing scholar

    2) seeking seats in front (seeking honor i guess)

    3) seeking attention of people

    4) arguing with fool

    So according to my opinion

    the 1st case can fall under both ‘Riya’ (display of piety or pleasing scholars by making them know that one persuaded and acquired such knowledge for Allah) or it can fall under maybe “Istikbaar” and display of greatness both of which can be huge sins leading to hell.

    The 2nd case can also be like case of “Riya”, earning people’s honor by showing them that he strived to become knowledgeable for Allah and became, just like ‘a real scholar’ does and hence gaining their respect

    The 3rd case is also similar to them, like “Riya” and seeking people’s attention and praises.

    The 4th case i don’t know to which extent it falls to, maybe to maintain and hold his own superiority to others, like “Istikbaar”.

    Sir am i understanding the point of Ahadith right?

    Can you explain me which violation of Islamic law does each case fall into?

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 7, 2022 at 12:56 pm

    @Irfan76 sir, I’m just writing this comment to further explain what my point is that I’m asking, and for that i may be using some made up terms or signs for sake of simplicity,

    C1 => giving someone money/help

    C2 => giving someone money/help with intention to please Allah = it becomes an act of worship (charity)

    If someone does C1 in order to please someone or in order to gain material or worldly benefit from people, it’s Mubah, i.e a doctor charging fees for treating patient or a man giving a present to a friend to please him.

    But if someone does C2 in order to gain benefits from people like money or to please them, it becomes shirk (as someone is associated with the aim of worship).

    F1 => Not eating or drinking from dawn to dusk

    F2 => not eating or drinking from dusk to dawn to please Allah = it becomes a worship (fasting)

    If someone merely does F1 for getting money, there’s no problem. For example a man challenging his friend to do this to make him used to of dieting

    But if someone does F2 in order to please someone or get money from someone, then again it becomes shirk (because of association of something else as an aim in worship, besides Allah)

    K1 => learning or getting to know Islamic knowledge merely, just like learning any worldly knowledge like history, or maths.

    K2 => learning Islam to serve Allah, wanting to follow his commandments and be aware of his prohibitions or serve Allah by spreading religion = becomes an act of worship (+ the way of “Islamic scholars” that persuade Islam) .

    So what i wanted to understand was that warnings mentioned above are for someone who does K1 for worldly gains or reasons? For example the one who does it out of curiosity or just randomly because a friend is showing him a video from his phone, so to not make him feel rude, he watches it.

    Or is the warning for the one that does K2 for worldly gains,? For example someone aiming for honor and Fame and praise of people that they do for a “real scholar'”. Or like a person wanting to make money by doing K2 and displaying his “real scholar” attitude

    So sir this is basically the type of framework of my question. So can you explain me the answers and the question that i presented in above comments and this comment?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 8, 2022 at 1:29 am

    An intention is bad or not, is what your conscience decides. In all Ahadith this is the bad intention, of course, is condemned. About worldly benefits, we discussed earlier.

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 8, 2022 at 2:10 am

    @irfan76 so sir even though the words apparently say that “knowledge that should be sought for Allah” which gives an indication of Islamic knowledge, but that would be bad only if such knowledge is intended in the way of Allah (which becomes a worship) but someone does it only to collect honor and benefits from people, that they give to someone that seek Islamic knowledge for Allah, like real scholars. So in order to get those he has to make a display that he did it for Allah (like a real scholar) hoping that people would honor him as such.

    To elaborate my point. When we say that “Riya is when you do something that Allah likes, to please someone else” now. The words can be a little confusing here. Allah likes the action for example of ‘helping someone’. Now a person may take it apparently like action of ‘helping someone’ can only be done for Allah and none else, so for him charging a service for ‘helping someone’ (for example dropping someone as a taxi driver), or doing it to please someone ( dropping a friend to his house to please him) would become wrong.

    But actually what we mean when we said the phrase above, is that only ‘helping someone intending Allah’s pleasure’ is not to be done for someone else or for money. As the intention pleasure of Allah makes it a worship, hence we should not use this notion to earn money or pleasure of someone else. For example a person B impresses someone by making him think that he helped a man for Allah’s pleasure, hence the other person would be pleased or impressed with his pious action.

    So it all comes to Allah’s pleasure should not be sought to please someone else but only Allah.

    So similar is the case with above hadith? Am i right sir? That mere knowing about Islam is not what is meant in this hadith but this same action which a person does, to earn benefits by displaying that he did such action for Allah. (Getting honored just like a real scholar who does this for Allah’s pleasure). Sir i feel my last previous comment might be helpful to understand what I’m saying.

    Am i right sir?

    And sir my understanding that i wrote in previous comment, is it right sir?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 8, 2022 at 2:33 am

    Again, an intention is bad or not, showing to someoen or to please someone other than God is band or not for an act of goodness, has to be decided by the conscience. Wordly gians or seeking honour if comes as a by product, it is ok. but if it is the primary aim it is wrong.

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 8, 2022 at 2:58 am

    @irfan76 okay sir and is my understanding as i wrote in comment with made up numbers and letters ( C1 , C2 … Etc) is this understanding correct?

    And secondly, for example if someone says to his friend that i want to just check your memory and if you can memorize 3 pages of any book I’ll give you $10, so he just said of memorizing any book. The boy could not find a good book to memorize 3 pages so he randomly memorizes 3 pages of Quran, that he found in his cupboard, and then later passed his friend’s challenge and got $10. So here he technically memorized Quran to earn money, but he earned money not for memorizing the Quran itself(as an ibadah or for pleasure of Allah) but to just use it as a book to analyze his memory and to pass the challenge, so it would be not wrong according to Hadith? Right sir?

    With your answer of this example i would be able to deduce the concept and understand better.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 8, 2022 at 3:01 am

    This is what you have to decide. Is this something a rival to God or not, is there anything unethical or not.

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member December 8, 2022 at 3:06 am

      @irfan76 sir what does meaning rival to God exactly means? Is it meaning that doing something that pleases Allah, but i do it for pleasing someone else?

      Like the example of helping someone to drop off at their location, is actually “helping someone” this action can be liked by Allah if done for his sake but otherwise if done to please a friend normally (helping a friend to dropp him off)or earn money then it’s not bad and that’s how taxi drivers work etc

      Other wise other than this thing there’s nothing wrong in it. Just i am not clear about the concept of ‘Rival to God’

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 8, 2022 at 3:10 am

    Rival to God means, God would not like it against Himself, like showing gaining knowledge of Deen for fame and not to please God.

    In your cited examples, ask yourself, is there anyting unethical which God won’t like. if it is not, it is not shirk or Riyakar.

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member December 8, 2022 at 3:15 am

      @irfan76 sir that is exactly what I am confused about totally. Is ‘Gaining knowledge about religion’ intrinsically only something that cannot be done for any other reason than the pleasure of Allah?

      Like “helping someone” intrinsically is not of this category, it can be done to please someone else or it can be done to please Allah (then it becomes worship). Now further i cannot use this action of helping someone by the way of Allah (which now becomes ibadah) to collect money or pleasure of someone else (like a person showing off help of someone he did so that others would think that how God fearing and God conscious this man is). This is what would be like doing worship of Allah , but not for Allah

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 8, 2022 at 3:37 am

    Let the person decides.

    In principle, if the benefit of a good act is a byproduct of the act, it is no issue. If it is the primary goal, it is shirk or riyakari.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 8, 2022 at 3:40 am

    Take the example of Hajj, God allowed to get financial benefit from Hajj, it is not the primary goal.

    لَيْسَ عَلَيْكُمْ جُنَاحٌ أَن تَبْتَغُوا فَضْلًا مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ ۚ فَإِذَا أَفَضْتُم مِّنْ عَرَفَاتٍ فَاذْكُرُوا اللَّهَ عِندَ الْمَشْعَرِ الْحَرَامِ ۖ وَاذْكُرُوهُ كَمَا هَدَاكُمْ وَإِن كُنتُم مِّن قَبْلِهِ لَمِنَ الضَّالِّينَ

    2: 198

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member December 8, 2022 at 3:56 am

      @irfan76 sir i think according to my understanding, that in example of above ayat, a person does not earn money upon doing Hajj itself, he does earn upon doing business. Which he does along with route for Hajj. Like in an example a person is making a trip to Makkah for 2 intentions, one to do Hajj and one to do business as many people would be there. Both intentions are alright and if they are put together. And even if someone does make a trip to Makkah solely for purpose of business, he won’t be sinning and it would be like a normal business trip. According to my understanding this ayat is dispelling that notion of biddah that if someone combines these 2 intentions together (one is trip to Makkah for Hajj -> an ibadah) and (one is trip to Makkah for business -> Mubah). I guess this ayat is explaining that there’s no problem in combing these two. But it does not state that someone can earn money on doing Hajj for himself etc.

      In another aspect, a person going for Hajj can also intend to use this trip to Makkah as a business opportunity, secondarily. But someone praying namaz even if his prime motive is to please Allah but if there’s even a little speck (let alone being secondary motive) of doing it for someone else’s pleasure then it’s shirk and whole ibadah gets rejected

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 8, 2022 at 3:44 am

    @irfan76 sir by good act, it means worship action or that action that we do as a pleasure of Allah? Right sir?

    So in this sense, helping someone is not technically a “good act” but becomes only a good act when done with intention of pleasing God or fulfill his responsibility.

    So my question is that learning anything about Islamic thing, is it intrinsically “a good act” or “a worship”?

    Like a non Muslim just watching some videos about Islam for general knowledge or curiosity

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 8, 2022 at 3:51 am

    Anything good to do come under the category of worship. We have at the back of our minds that all good acts are rewarded by God. So every good is an act whether to please God, like saying a prayer or to please people like helping them is ultimately rewareded by God. In a hadith it is said to make love with one’s own wife too is worship.

    This is all about Muslims, not about non-Muslim. The belief system of non-Muslims is a different debate.

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 8, 2022 at 4:34 am

    @irfan76 sir for easy explanation i would be using diagram to describe inshallah.

    In the picture related to Hajj, like you can see that both (1) and (2) are permissible and okay. But i guess the people at prophet’s time had a biddah that if someone makes a trip to Makkah for Hajj then he should not do anything else, in their mind the third picture diagram (3) was not appropriate, so from my understanding in the ayat above Allah refuted this belief and allowed the (3) scenario but we see that money earning is “Not because of ibadah” but only because of business (selling buying)

    And in the second diagram i meant to say that things written in black can be done both for pleasing Allah or for some other reason. It is ibadah when it becomes Blue arrow and Mubah thing when it is a Red arrow. So what i meant to say is that anything of worldly gains if it is made an aim by the way of Blue arrow, then it is shirk etc (but some benefit if comes itself, it’s no problem. Our intention should not be to seek it). You can see in both examples.

    So i meant to say that mere getting information of Islam. Is it of Blue category or is it of Black color category?

    Ps. I am really sorry for putting up many questions sir

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 8, 2022 at 4:52 am

    @irfan76 and sir isn’t it like that, that not every good thing can be done for people, some are exclusively for Allah alone like namaz, roza.

    So just the action of learning about Islam, just as an intrinsic action, is it something that is exclusively only for Allah? Or is it something intrinsically of of the Black color category and the intention further to do this act is what makes it either ibadah, either Mubah or either a sin etc?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 9, 2022 at 1:28 am

    Kindly spend some time on the principle I mentioned above. and things will get clear with the passage of time.

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 9, 2022 at 1:36 am

    @irfan76 okay sir. Just lastly i wanted to ask that what is the principle through which we can know that something can only be done solely for Allah, and no one else etc. One thing is worship, which is solely done for Allah. And other than that how can a person decide which thing is solely for Allah and which thing can be also done for other worldly intentions?

    Just for a little explanation that something may be pleasing to Allah but we do it for some other reasons, like the timing of namaz. Praying in earliest time of starting is beloved to Allah, but if someone does not do this out for his pleasure but to save up some time for later worldy activities. Although this is closely related to ibadah, so how to analyze which thing can be done for other reasons than Allah

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 9, 2022 at 1:44 am

    Praying earlier or later for our convenience is allowed by God. Taking advantage of this relaxation indicates we accept God’s authority and this relaxation increases our love for Him who considers our problems and mood.

    A good act whether to please God, like saying a prayer, or to please people like helping them is ultimately rewarded by God. In this latter case, we need not artificially make it done for Allah, just like prayer.

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 9, 2022 at 1:59 am

    @irfan76 okay sir. Sir I’m just putting up a little example in fromt of you. For example if a man learns some religious knowledge on some topics etc so that he can be posted as a lecturer in University and then take some payment for his renumeration. So taking such renumeration is not bad, so if someone learns religious knowledge and facts aiming for being a lecturer and earn living like this. It wouldn’t be objectionable or bad, right sir?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 9, 2022 at 2:03 am

    of course not. There is nothing objectionable, as discussed earlier. it is not like saying prayer. When you impart knowledg it benefits other, so you can have monitary advangate of it.

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member December 9, 2022 at 2:25 am

      @irfan76 okayyy sir, this is where i was confused with “worldly benefits”. I was thinking that anyone looking for worldly benefits as an aim for acquiring Islamic knowledge is warned about hell. That’s why I thought having learning with an aim of earning money would be greatly sinful. But that again depends on the situation of aim of earning money that makes it Haram or halal. If he is aiming that people give him money merely for learning it for Allah’s sake, this would be bad. But the latter case of someone learning Islamic knowledge with aim of earning, but through the way of taking payment for his renumeration(for teaching or giving lecture), this would not be Haram or sinful. So the same aim of learning Islamic knowledge for earning money is Haram in one case but permissible in other, am i right sir?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 9, 2022 at 3:15 am

    yes. an example is of Jihad and the share of spoils of war. It is definite that one will get one’s share if one participates in Jihad, but it is the intention that makes one’s jihad pure or impure. If one’s aim is to please God and one knows one will get a worldly benefit too, it is quite right, but if one’s primary aim is his share in the spoils of war, it is an impure intention.

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member December 9, 2022 at 3:21 am

      @irfan76 okay sir, but that person with who goes to jihad for money, this would be not for Allah, hence Allah would not give him any rewards at all in here after but this action won’t earn him any sin as well, right sir?

    • Mohammad Ali Soomro

      Member December 9, 2022 at 3:28 am

      @irfan76 okay sir , thank you so much for your efforts and time sir ❤️

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 9, 2022 at 3:23 am

    yes

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 10, 2022 at 3:02 am

    @Irfan76 sir there is an Hadith mentioned

    Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2655

    Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:

    that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Whoever learns knowledge for other than (the sake of) Allah, or intends by it other than Allah, then let him take his seat in the Fire.”

    Somewhere it is said that this Hadith is zaeef and somewhere it is said that this Hadith is Hassan-Gareeb.

    But sir if we consider this ahadith reliable, even though the words use of “anything other than Allah” it apparently seems to be a full sweeping statement that anything aim other than pleasure of Allah, is sinful. But we would have to comprehend this ahadith in terms of only those “other than Allah” intentions that fall into sin and are bad, other than that Mubah intentions which are even if other than Allah’s sake, it won’t be wrong, right sir?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 13, 2022 at 10:27 pm

    We do not believe in the literalist approach, as you tend to adopt to understand the text, especially when come to Hadith, which is the words of the narrators, not of the prophet, necessarily. We read the text under the principles of Deen. In principle, only unethical or immoral are objectionable that make a thing haram or undesirable. Here, too, as I have explained earlier that anything other than Allah means against Allah, rival to Allah. If one renders his services for teaching religious knowledge to others and gets some monetary benefits in terms of salary or remuneration and also earns respect, it is fine, but if such goals are his primary intentions then it is that “anything” which is condemned.

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 14, 2022 at 1:21 am

    @Irfan76 thank you so much, my respected sir for your efforts 😊🌹

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 14, 2022 at 8:06 am

    @Irfan76 sir i wanted to ask that in Quran surah Araf ayat 31 we are told by Allah to wear our adornments when we come to prayer. Some scholars say that Allah says us that we wear adornments when coming to mosque etc and the more the beautiful and nicer the adornment the more better and beloved to Allah, so that someone who goes to Masjid with nice adornment for Allah would please Allah more. Now i wanted to ask that someone who normally goes to Masjid with normal or less average than normal clothing when doing to Masjid, like an old shalwar kameez (and sometimes some with a little patch hole on shoulder) that they wear in the house, they go in Masjid in it, normally. But at some occasion that person is about to go for a big function or a wedding and they wear their best clothes and perfumes and watches and rings. And then time for namaz comes and he goes to Masjid for it and prays. Now he did not wear beautiful and nice adornments to fulfill that commandment (or do that mustahab act for Allah’s pleasure) as mentioned in the ayat above. But he does it because after namaz, he would go for a function. So that action which could have been done for Allah and earn his pleasure was not done for Allah’s sake but was done because of later going to function. So is this intention right? And there’s nothing wrong in it? In this case, here nothing was done, that should have been done only and only for Allah’s sake? Is it like this?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 15, 2022 at 12:58 am

    Yes, of course. He adopted an adornment for a thing that is allowed and then he says his prayer that is fine. He has no intention to please someone or something rival to God.

    Having said that, when God asked to put on your adornment for coming to the mosque, it is again a literalist approach to define adornment according to the scope of the word’s lexical meanings. It will be understood for its logical exigencies. The adornment for the mosque is the usual dress, which is called adornment in the previous verse: 7: 26, which also provides context to take in the meaning of dress. So we need not put on our best dress every time we go to mosque to show our sincerity to God.

  • Mohammad Ali Soomro

    Member December 15, 2022 at 11:54 am

    @Irfan76 sir in a lesson of Meezan ghamidi Sahab while addressing Riya, he said that “logon ki riayat se ki jaane waali cheezen, yani Woh cheezen jinka taaluq deen se hai, kyun ke Deen toh sar ta sar Allah ke Liye hai, ibaadaat sar ta sar Allah ke Liye”

    And also in last event of ask ghamidi live, he answered my question about taking payment on teaching Quran and other religious lectures

    “Woh cheezen jo insan Deen ki kisi zimmedari ko Pura karne ke Liye karta hai ya jiska taaluq aakhirat me naama-e-Aamal se ho, Jese namaz hai roza hai, kisi ki madad hai. Woh sırf Allah ke Liye honi chahiye… Aur poori yaksoohi ke Saath Allah hi ke Liye honi chahiye. Toh unpar koi muhafaza (payment) nahi Leni chahiye”

    Sir so in this video of Ghamidi Sahab,

    https://youtu.be/Lrk3sWhFOzU

    At about 29:20 he says that

    “Sach bolna, paigambar na bhi aata, tab bhi Deen hai.

    Nahaana ya maell lagi ho, usse saaf karna, paigambar naa bhi aata, tab bhi Deen hai”

    I guess he was speaking about it as Deen e fıtrat. But i feel confused. Because as he said that even taking a bath or removing dirt or impurity is Deen (in terms of deen e fıtrat). And in above excerpt he said that ‘fulfilment of any deeni responsibility’ should only be done for Allah and Allah only and further that no payment should be taken for it.

    1) So i was thinking that a person who for example owns a business and has a partner. So his partner asks for some financial details and the person gets some thoughts about lying, but then he realizes that if he lies and his lie is caught later, his partner would finish this partnership and his business would be in loss, so the reason for choosing not to lie and telling the truth facts, was not to fulfill or maintain religious responsibly (that lying would cause Allah’s displeasure), but it was done to save business. I mean before i used to think that this would be fine and okay but the person won’t be getting any rewards from Allah because he didn’t refrain from lying to be far from Allah’s displeasure but it was just to avoid worldly loses through people. But after hearing the video, i felt confused that as ghamidi sahab says that not lying and saying truth is Deen and someone doing that not for Allah but for worldly reason.

    2) and the second example that someone who cleans himself up from dirt and impurity, not for Allah but because for example he wants to feel personally comfortable Or he is meeting someone so in order to please them by looking clean and tidy, he washes himself up, so again i used to think that washing or cleaning oneself is a normal thing, which is allowed to be done for worldly reasons also (feeling comfortable, pleasing someone by looking good, or for example a model who earns money for photoshoot and remains extra clean for his career demands) OR it can be done for fulfilling religious responsibility hence becoming Deen (like wuzu, ghusl e janabah, ghusl e haiz) BUT watching above video and reading excerpt above i felt confused that cleaning oneself is also in itself Deen? And fulfilling any Deeni thing is only to be done for Allah only?

    But sir, Because we know that helping someone is also a Deeni act and act of goodness. But yet we can do it for both reasons. For religious fulfilment and naama e amaal (for Allah’s sake)

    Or we can do it for exchange of services and earning


    So sir can you explain me what did he mean by looking at those 2 things (excerpt and video), i feel like maybe I’m mixing a few things up like maybe when ghamidi Sahab says that these 2 things are Deen-e-fitrat then he did not meant that doing these 2 things is intrinsically fulfilment of religious responsibility or things a person does for naama e amaal. But he actually meant that these 2 things is what a human (excluding religious sentiments) naturally feels inclined to as something which has good consequences (like health and healthy relations, cleanliness).

    And so even though helping someone in general sense becomes a Deen-e-fitrat because we also like this thing to be done to us. But this does not mean that in itself the act is of religious fulfilment. But when it is done for Allah, then it TRULY becomes the act of religious fulfilment which ghamidi sahab was talking about in Ask Ghamid episode excerpt.

    So sir can you please clear the examples that i mentioned as 1) and 2) and explain me these 2 things below;

    – what Ghamidi Sahab meant in Ask Ghamidi excerpt i mentioned as fulfilling deeni zimmedari, they are different things than simply the act which he categorises as Deeni (deen e fıtrat) acts like bathing oneself and speaking truth. Those acts when done for purposes of fulfilling Allah’s command or for purpose of naama-e-Aamal, only then do they come under category of what Ghamidi Sahab says “deeni zimmedari ko Pura karne ke Liye” and that purpose of fulfilment of religious command should only be for Allah’s sake. Other than that those Deen – e – fıtrat acts can be done for other purposes also and also for purposes of fulfilling religious commands, am i right sir?

    – and sir can you explain what exactly is Deen-e-fitrat? Is it just simply the inclination of what a human feels towards something that he finds as something with good consequences (on himself or others or society). In simple words the acts of Deen-e-fitrat are not in themselves fulfilment of religious commands but these acts are which can be used to fulfill religious commands and naama e amaal? Am i right sir?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar December 15, 2022 at 9:12 pm

    Every word and sentence should be understood in its context and logical exigency, as I asserted it many a time before. Deen as the Shariah of God and Deen as the Deen of Fitrah, are two things. A speaker sometimes does not specify it every time considering his audience knows the difference already. You took the phrase Deeni Zimmadari from another context and then put it in a sentence of some other context. This again is the literalist approach that makes you perplexed.

    Saying a prayer for God and keeping fast for Him is clear, no other intention can be involved. To help someone to please Allah should be a pure intention, but to get a worldly benefit like salary or remuneration and a fee is fine, as it is not against pleasing Allah. The same goes for the acts of Deen e Fitrat. To please ourselves or others with such acts is fine, as there is nothing against pleasing Allah.

    Again, it is the conscience that decides whether another intention along with the pleasure of Allah is bad or not. That what is condemned in Ahadith or by scholars is the bad intentions that we know are bad.

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