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  • How God Punishes Nations And Its Modern Day Implications

    Posted by Hamza Faheem on February 20, 2023 at 6:10 pm

    I was reading the Quran, and have a few questions regarding how Allah Ta’ala punishes nations.

    Reference 1: As per Surah Saba 34: Ayat 15 – 17, Allah Ta’ala talks about the nation of Saba: ‘Hum ney un pey band ka selab bhej diya’.

    Reference 2: In Surah Fil, Allah Ta’ala says, ‘Tu ney dekha nai key teray parwardigar ney Hathi waloun key sath kya kiya? … Aur un pey jhund key jhund parinday musalat nhi kar diye?’


    Question 1. Was this an ‘Azaab’ from Allah?

    Question 2. Was this according to Law of Itmam e Hujjat or some other Law? Because there were no messengers at the time when these ‘Azab’s came on these nations

    Question 3. How can we differentiate if some Azaab comes because of the law of Itmam-e-Hujjat or some other law, while reading Quran?

    Question 4. If indeed this was an Azaab, can such an Azab come in present day times as well in some nation e.g Pakistan, India (etc) – in the form of Earthquakes or floods etc?

    Hamza Faheem replied 6 months, 2 weeks ago 3 Members · 6 Replies
  • 6 Replies
  • How God Punishes Nations And Its Modern Day Implications

    Hamza Faheem updated 6 months, 2 weeks ago 3 Members · 6 Replies
  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar February 22, 2023 at 11:59 pm

    Itmam-e-Hujjat is a continuous process. In the obvious matters of ethics, especially, it is evidently completed, that is why Hudood punishments of God, punishment of theft, murder, adultery, and Fasaad fi al-Ard, are called Azab by God. The difference which comes with Rasool is that the results are made evident in front of his addressees. such Azab can come to a nation or an individual who exceeds a certain limit of Zulm, but we cannot call it Azab for sure because it is only through Rasool this knowledge comes to us.

    In the case of the people of elephants, they are subject to Azab for crossing the limit. At that moment, God decided to punish them. It is not necessary that God punish a deserving nation or individual every time in this world. but in the case of Rasool’s addressees, He does not spare them.

  • Hamza Faheem

    Member February 23, 2023 at 6:37 pm

    So if God punished the people of the Elephants and people of Saba (while they didn’t have a Rasool amongst them), is it fair to conclude that God might still punish today’s nations with natural disasters etc?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar February 23, 2023 at 11:48 pm

    Yes. It is told as a principle statement in Quran is sura isra that God either send a azab or halakat to destroy a nation. And also that God does not destroy a nation until it deserves destruction due to its zulm.

    I will share the relevant verses.

  • Umer

    Moderator February 27, 2023 at 6:35 am

    There are four different Sunnats of Allah in this context:

    i) Reward And Punishment (See: Discussion 22351)

    This one relates to:

    a) people who are only after this world

    b) those who reject their respective rasul (messenger)

    c) specific law for the progeny of Abraham

    ii) Rise And Fall Of Nations (See: Discussion 22313)

    This is in accordance with Quran 13:11 and Quran 17:58 where nations who rise to power are either punished under itmam-e-hujjat law as per i) b) above or they are destroyed through other natural means (mostly gradually and sometimes with last final blow) when they persistently show depravation in morality and knowledge. Nation of Saba was subject to this very kind of destruction according to Ghamidi Sahab. This law of rise and fall of nations is still at play but all natural disasters are not necessarily because of this law. Instead, they could very well be in accordance with the iii) principle of Ibtila applicable in this world.(See: Discussion 22229). History tells us that first the Hamites and then the Semites were selected for this purpose and for the past five hundred years, the progeny of Japheth have been chosen for this purpose. These are last peoples on which history will be ending. It is note worthy that according to Imam Amin Ahsan Islahi, the nation of Saba were also sent a rasul first and they were punsihed after they rejected their messenger. He uses Quran 16:112-113 in support of his argument and claim these verses are actually talking about nation of Saba.

    The destruction on Abraha’s Army was in accordance with iv) Divine Help of Allah (See: Discussion 22322) where Quraish were helped once they showed perseverance and used all their means to fight off the attack of a rebellious Army on Allah’s house. It was not a punishment on a nation as described in previous laws (Azab), rather destruction of an aggressor’s army to be very specific. In addition to this, sanctity of kaba holds a very special place in religion, so even if Quraish had not resisted at all, God would still choose to protect Baitullah against an aggressor’s army.

    Please also refer to the following videos of Ghamidi Sahab:

  • Umer

    Moderator February 27, 2023 at 6:35 am

    Destruction of Abraha’s Army:

    Please also refer to the video below from 32:14 to 38:32

  • Hamza Faheem

    Member March 11, 2023 at 12:26 pm

    I’ve gone through the contents of your reply. The confusion is clear. Jazak’Allah!

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