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  • The Masnawi Of Maulana Rumi

    Posted by Ali abd on April 28, 2023 at 12:00 pm

    my question is ; I have read some quotes of rumi from his famous work , the masnawi and in it , he says that God is actually experiening himself through human. That basically you have God within you.

    Now isn’t this shirk? How should one understand his work?

    Like for example ; “You are looking for God. That is the problem. The God in you is the one who is looking.”

    How can one understand this without thinking that God is actually experiencing Himself through you , me and every other human beings. It is basically the same thing christians say that God transformed in human and made himself forgot who He was and that became Jesus. Once death come; one rises out of this forgetting and realises he is one with God. To me this either sounds shirk or am I not comprehending it correctly.

    Kindly if you can elaborate?

    Thank you.

    Imran replied 2 weeks, 3 days ago 4 Members · 6 Replies
  • 6 Replies
  • The Masnawi Of Maulana Rumi

    Imran updated 2 weeks, 3 days ago 4 Members · 6 Replies
  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar April 29, 2023 at 12:20 am

    This is pantheism, which is shirk. The trinity is too a kind of this shirk in which three gods are considered as one. God in Quran calls it Shrik. The same idea has been extended in pantheism. Academically this notion came from Plotinus, a Greek philosopher, and penetrated into other religious philosophies.

    • Imran

      Member May 15, 2023 at 11:35 am

      It would only be shirk if you affirm there is someone in existence who is other than God and like him, in essence or attributes or acts. Non-dualism ( qualified and non-qualified ) does not assert this.

      What about this universe ? There are two views. The simple answer is that this universe only exists as an illusion. But an illusion has no existence in reality once you know its reality.

      You can say the claim that the universe is an illusion is wrong, but this claim doesn’t entail kufr or shirk. It would only be shirk if someone says this universe is God or that God is this universe, but no Sufis says this when they talk from the perspective of non-qualified non-dualism, where you don’t have any stages of descent. There is simply no universe, only God.

      The confusion about the relation of the universe with God arises when you study qualified non-dualism where Sufis describe God’s self revelation in six descents (Hahoot, Yahoot, Lahoot, Jabroot, Malakoot, Nasoot) , where Nasoot is the universe itself. Here we need to be extremely careful. It’s important to not confuse being with essence. The realm of Nasoot is characterized by contingency and creation. It does not share the essence of God, his attributes and acts. The only aspect the universe has in common with God, relatively is BEING ( Wujud). But this isn’t controversial. All of you here believe God and the universe both exist or that they both are beings. The definition of being is to be found or experienced. IF you want to be on the safer side, you can add God’s being and the universe’s being are not alike since they are not found in the same manner.

      As for me, l believe non-qualified non-dualism is correct. The six stages of descent don’t actually exist. The realm of Hahoot is the only reality. It is pure consciousness, bliss and being. Here God has no attributes or descriptions. There is no subject or object here. The Zikr for this stage is Huu in Sufism.

    • Imran

      Member May 15, 2023 at 1:05 pm

      I would also like to add that non-dualism and its various forms predate Plotinus and Neo-platonism. This concept can be found in Hinduism, Bhuddism, Taoism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

      The denial of higher metaphysical principles is only a recent phenomenon. It’s a facet of modernism which emphasizes becoming over being, actions over contemplation, appearances over reality.

      If you want to know more about this, you can read

      The Crisis of the Modern World by Rene Guenon and watch this short 37 min lecture on this book

  • Umer

    Moderator April 29, 2023 at 5:33 pm

  • Umer

    Moderator April 29, 2023 at 5:33 pm

  • Umer

    Moderator April 29, 2023 at 5:36 pm

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