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  • Masnavi By Molana Rumi (ra)

    Dr. Irfan Shahzad updated 2 weeks ago 3 Members · 13 Replies
  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar May 13, 2023 at 12:50 am

    I haven’t read it. However in principle, anything which talks about the pantheism, which is the core beleif of myticism, or anything against the teaching of Islam si not acceptable, the rest can be enjoyed in the realm of poetry.

  • Muhammad Sami ud-Din

    Member May 13, 2023 at 4:55 am

    I was asking about the stories of the prophets (pbut) and the companions (rta). Because, Engr. Muhammad Ali Mirza Sb. (ha) has said that the stories were not true.

    • Imran

      Member May 14, 2023 at 3:12 am

      Here is the reply of Mawlana Rumi from the Masnavi itself to all those who object to Masnavi and say it contains mere fables and stories

      Objections of fools to the Masnavi.

      A certain goose pops his head out of his coop,

      And displays himself as a critic of the Masnavi,

      Saying, “This poem, the Masnavi, is childish;

      ‘Tis but a story of the prophets, and so on.

      ‘Tis not an account of the arguments and deep mysteries

      Whereto holy men direct their attention;

      Concerning asceticism, and so on to self-annihilation,

      Step by step, up to communion with God;

      An explanation and definition of each several state,

      Whereto the men of heart ascend in their flight.”

      Whereas the Book of God resembles the Masnavi in this,

      The infidels abused it, in the same manner,

      Saying, ‘It contains old tales and stories;”

      There is no deep analysis or lofty investigation therein.

      Little boys can understand it;

      It only contains commands and prohibitions,

      Accounts of Yusuf and his curled locks,

      Accounts of Jacob, of Zulaikha and her love,

      Accounts of Adam, of the wheat, and of the serpent Iblis,

      Accounts of Hud, of Noah, of Abraham, and the fire.”

      Know the words of the Koran are simple,

      But within the outward sense is an inner secret one.

      Beneath that secret meaning is a third,

      Whereat the highest wit is dumbfoundered.

      The fourth meaning has been seen by none

      Save God, the Incomparable and All-sufficient.

      Thus they go on, even to seven meanings, one by one,

      According to the saying of the Prophet, without doubt.

      Do thou, O son, confine not thy view to the outward meaning

      Even as the demons saw in Adam only clay

    • Imran

      Member May 14, 2023 at 3:32 am

      I need to elaborate on the point of Rumi that the Quran contains old tales and stories also. This is a very deep point. You should know there have been many Muslim scholars and mystics who thought the Quran does not report historical facts. This isn’t its job. In fact, The Quran conveys deep truths and mysteries via sacred legends and myths. Whether it’s the story of Noah, the miracles of Jesus, the story of Adam and Eve and Satan, Zhul Qarnain’s tale…. ALL these stories are not historically accurate, they don’t reflect historical facts. So if the Quran can use stories and fables to teach deeper truths, what’s wrong if Mawlana Rumi does the same ?

      But even if you don’t accept this understanding. There is nothing wrong in using a weak narration to convey a lesson that does not contradict the fundamental principles of Islam. ( Quran and received Sunnah )

    • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

      Scholar May 15, 2023 at 2:55 am

      If there are untrue stories about the real people like prophets and companions, they should be read as such that they are untrue.

  • Muhammad Sami ud-Din

    Member May 19, 2023 at 1:12 pm

    @Saifullah The Glorious Qur’an never used fictional stories, the stories of prophet Adam and Eve, prophet Noah, prophet Jesus, or Dhu al-Qarnayn, are all true.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar May 20, 2023 at 4:24 am

    Quran tells allegorical stories like that of the people of a garden in Sura 68: 17 onwards, and a dialogue between parents and their son in surah 46: 17 but they are not about the real people.

  • Muhammad Sami ud-Din

    Member May 20, 2023 at 6:31 am

    Are the stories of the prophets (peace be upon them) also the allegories? As claimed above by brother @Saifullah .

    • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

      Scholar May 20, 2023 at 6:33 am

      No, as it is evident in the previous response: “but they are not about the real people.”

  • Muhammad Sami ud-Din

    Member May 20, 2023 at 6:37 am

    Sir, why the Quran used allegorical stories? I’m a bit skeptical about it. Does Allah Almighty told allegories as real incidents? It’s a new topic for me.

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar May 20, 2023 at 6:48 am

    To convey a moral lesson, allegorical stories have been a useful tool. God used it too for us, because we needed it.

  • Muhammad Sami ud-Din

    Member May 20, 2023 at 10:10 am

    Is it mentioned anywhere, in the Glorious Qur’an, that such stories are allegorical?

  • Dr. Irfan Shahzad

    Scholar May 21, 2023 at 1:36 am

    God has stated in the Quran that He teaches with example. see the verses 16: 74-86

    The way these example are told determines that they are allogorical, not a real story.

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